Age descrimination

[Eagle63]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum but found the answers to other problems very helpful. My son has worked hard and has completed his requirements for Eagle. He just turn 14, has been very active (95% attendence at meetings and activities),has 49 merit badges( all required for eagle), been a Den Chief for almost 4 years, finished his Eagle Project ( a memorial to 9.11 and the Veterans at the American Legion Post), and has taken part in a Scoutmaster's Conference. Our problem now is that the Scoutmaster( an Eagle) will not sign his eagle Application, the SM says my son is not prepared because he did not like his answers to the question he asked him, the SM only critized about his project, and is complaining of somethings going on now 1 1/2 years after he pasted his Life BOR. My son has great character, he is very active in his Church and has 3 religious awards from his faith, made the high Honor roll all four quarters in school, and the National Junior Honor Society. My son is afraid of his SM, he does not feeld comfortable around him, I am getting the impression the SM is jeolous of my son's love for scouting and rapid advancement and achievements ( he is also an OA brotherhood member and Chapter officer). Some leaders in the troop has told him in the past to slow down he is too young. Waht can or should I do ? My son wants to leave and go to another Troop. Will this cause him to do more at the new troop ? Will he have to repeat requirements ? I understand there is an Appeal Process, has anyone used this before ?

Thanks for reading,

Eagle63

[bbng]

If your son is passionate about Scouting, actively involved, but not happy with his current troop and expressing the desire to move to another one, that may be in his best interests. I am not familiar with the specifics of working through the Eagle qualifications, but someone here will be. Welcome to the forums, and I hope you find the answers you need to support your son in this situation.

[Mike F]

Eagle63,

Normally I would recommend you and your son contact the District Advancement Chairman to seek his/her advice, but that would certainly make things even worse in his troop and, at 14, he has many years of scouting to look forward to as a youth.

 

But I'd start by having you talk to the SM. Try and find out why he doesn't feel like your son is ready. It's very possible that he simply doesn't think your son is old enough. There is no age requirement for Eagle, but way too many adults out there seem to think they can impose one. They can't. If the SM thought your son had some issues with scout spirit, etc., he should have been more clear in his SM conference. It really bothers me that the SM approved your son's Eagle project - knowing full well this meant he was closing in on his goal - then threw up another roadblock.

 

There's more to this story. Find out what it is. If the problem sounds terminal in his home troop, don't think twice about visiting others immediately. Like I said at the beginning, your son has many more years of scouting to enjoy. Don't let bad feelings in one troop from spoiling it for him.

 

Good luck!

 

-mike

[jr56]

If things cannot be mended with the Scoutmaster, the boy can still have his Eagle BOR. I had a situation like this years ago as District Advancement Chair. A boys Scoutmaster refused to sign the Eagle application for what we considered to not be responsible reasons. The District BOR was conducted anyway, and the boy recieved his Eagle.

[CA_Scouter]

I would seriously doubt that an adult would be 'jealous' of a young scout, I'm sure he has some concerns on how quickly he has risen through the ranks. Your son's accomplishments are well beyond normal for most scouts his age.

 

You mention about the SM not liking some of the answers to his questions, but you don't state what subject was addressed. Perhaps this information might shed some light on why the SM won't sign off.

 

I would approach the SM directly and ask what specific reasons he has for not signing off on the Scoutmaster conference. Perhaps by approaching him in a constructive and postive manner, you can understand his reasoning and perhaps he can better address your concerns.

 

However, if his reasons are soley because he is 'too young', then he has no legitimate reason to deny the young man.

 

I am concerned, however, about an Eagle Scout candidate who is 'afraid' of his own Scoutmaster. It may be that this is one of the reasons the SM is slowing things down, waiting for the young man to work through this...(just speculation on my part).

 

 

 

 

[VAordeal]

Greetings and welcome to the forum. I believe that the SM probobly feels that your son is to young. I am in a troop where if you are not eagle by 15, some would consider you a failure. But i have a friend in another troop who is in a similair situation. Almost identical actualy. He resolved it in the end but the whole reason his SM wouldnt sign was because he felt my friend was too young to make eagle. I would be willing to bet that this is the reason in your son's case. Good luck to you and him.

[DonM]

I had almost the same situation earlier this year, but from the point of view of the SM. A Scout was ready for his Eagle BOR who sounds very much like your son. Young 14, very active, all his badges, great student, active in church. All in all, a great Scout. Although I signed his application, I had a couple of concerns that I discussed in detail with the Scout.

 

First, I thought his parents might be doing more on his Eagle project than he was. I wasn't sure, but he seemed to not know the answers to certain questions we asked. As a result, we pushed much harder for him to document and demonstrate his understanding of the project he was leading. In the end, I felt sure that, whether or not his parents were heavily involved, he had really done the leadership.

 

Second, he had never held a major leadership position in the troop (SPL, ASPL, etc.). I didn't see this as a barrier to Eagle, but, for a young man with so much potential, I felt he deserved the chance to be an older Scout, one the troop looked up to, and serve in a troop leadership role with his peers. I was concerned that, making Eagle, he would be too busy to work at those positions.

 

Finally, I was concerned that he was seeing Eagle too much as a checklist on the way to college and, having earned it, would quickly drop out of Scouts.

 

Well, he got his Eagle, and I haven't seen much of him since. He says he wants to stay involved, but he's so busy on other activities, he hardly has time.

 

I'm not saying this is your son. I think the SM should sign him off if he's met the requirements. I just wanted to explain some possible reasons for the SM's hesitation. If possible, have your son work with the SM, understand his concerns (it might not be that he's too young), and try to satisfy him that he's earned Eagle. Be patient.

 

And, after he makes Eagle, encourage your son to stay involved. It's a great program.

 

DonM

[Eagle63]

Hello Scouters

Some more information about my son. My son meet with his former Scoutmaster and had a good conversation. My son then had a follow up meeting with the SM, after this meeting the SM said my son did better answering questions however the SM felt he should show more leadership. After I heard this I blew up, I could not understand why my son was not told this at the last meeting. My son went to this second meeting with the anticipation of being able to go to the BOR if he was able to answer the questions. My son was heartbroken when he was again told that SM would not sign his application. The other problem I have is if my son was not doing a good job ( as Den Chief or OA rep) was was he not told during his 6months. Why did the SM wait 1 and 1/2 yrs later when he had everything done for Eagle. I have spoken to the CC who (suprise) backs the Scoutmaster any even blames me about the current situation. I have spoken to the District President who will talk to the Unit Commissioner.

 

Thanks for the info,

Eagle63

[ScoutNut]

You said your son talked to his "former Scoutmaster". Does this mean he has changed Troops? If so, he should talk to his current Scoutmaster, NOT his former one. His requirements have all been signed off so there should have no question about them, they are a done deal at this point.

 

I doubt the Unit Commissioner will be able to do anything with the former SM. If I were you I would contact your council's Advancement Committee Chair. Helping boys thru the Eagle process is part of what that committee does.

[Lynda J]

I have one question. You stated that the SM did nothing but critize your sons Eagle Project.

If he approved it, as required, he must have seen quality in the project. So suddenly he is critizing that same project. Also I have a question regarding his having been a Den Chief for 4 years. Our District requires all Den Chiefs be at least 1st Class Rank and have attended Den Chief Training through the Council.

If he has just turned 14 had has been a Den Chief for 4 years that would mean he became a Den Chief at 10.

 

I also worry about boys that rush Eagle. They have until their 18th birthday. Slow down and enjoy the scouting program. Don't be in such a hurry. My Kevin, 12, is very scout orientated. Has all but two if his Eagle Badges. Is currently a Den Chief. Just spent the weekend teaching Fire Building for Outdoor Leader Skills.

He is targeting 16 for Eagle. His choice, because he wasnt to have fun. He also wants to earn Eagle at an age where he can then become an JASM.

That age requirement is 16. He said then he can spend until 18 earning Palms.

I personally thing that when a boy gets Eagle at such an early age he is more likely to drop out of Scouting simply because there isn't much higher he can go.

 

As far as an SM being jelous. It can very well happen. As a Unit Commissioner I have seen it.

Was called in because an SM refused to sign of on a boys Star. He all but refused to give me a reason. Just simply didn't feel the Scout was ready. This was a very good kid. Worked hard and was 14. Went to District Advancement Chair. He talked to the SM. Still no real reason. The DAC did the conference and signed the boys off.

Within 2 months the SM had left. New SM has grown the troop about 50% and their boys are once again advancing. They hadn't had a rank advancement above 1st Class in almost a year.

 

You son can appeal to the District Advancement Committee is HE, (not you) truly feels he is being

penalized. But my recomendation would to be let your son handle as much of this problem as he possibly can.

[Hunt]

ScoutNut, I think he's saying the boy spoke to a former SM for guidance, and then went back for this second discussion with the current SM.

[SeattlePioneer]

Umm. I think thius thread illustrates that there could be legitimate reasons to delay the Eagle award as well as illegitimate ones.

 

 

I can't say I'm impressed by a parents who are ready to explode when a temporary imediment obstructs the advance of the Heir Apparent.

 

Rather than legalistically investigating their "Rights," I would have suggested that they encourage their son to make an honest inquiry about the reservations of the Scoutmaster, and find ways to meet those objections. If that took a few weeks or months, it would be a good lesson about the realities of life, in my opinion.

 

It would also keep the Scout among his friends in his troop, rather than beginning new relationship in a new troop for what appears to me to be trivial reasons.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

 

 

[Xavier_woodstock]

tell him to slow down, believe me