Eagle-to-be not supported by troop

[Eagledad]

>>An Eagle project isn't a Troop project. There is no requirement for the Troop to help out.

[evmori]

Barry,

I agree my statement doesn't help solve the problem in this Troop. This sort of thing has never been a problem in my Troop. We (the adults) have always told the Scouts they aren't required to help on an Eagle project. We also remind them a Scout is helpful & friendly & when their turn comes they will be needing help.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

So, Ed, you tell us that Scouts cannot be required to help a fellow Scout with his Eagle project. Could you explain in different words what it is you are trying to communicate?

[evmori]

So, Ed, you tell us that Scouts cannot be required to help a fellow Scout with his Eagle project. Could you explain in different words what it is you are trying to communicate?

 

I'm not sure what you don't understand. Helping a Scout in the Troop with his Eagle project isn't required but it is the Scout thing to do.

 

Is that better?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

Ed, it sounded like you were advising that the troop should not get involved in a troop member's Eagle project and I wanted you to expand on that opinion. If that's not your position, then peace, but then why make that kind of statement in the first place?

[Hunt]

As I mentioned earlier, our District Eagle Advisor emphasized at a conference recently that the Eagle Project is not a troop activity. What he was trying to put across was that it is up to the candidate to organize assistance for the Project, and that the SM and other adult leaders shouldn't do it for him by just telling the troop to show up. It seems to me that there is a fine line here: on the one hand, I think it's perfectly consistent with this view to remind scouts of their duty to obey the Scout Law, to remind them that they'll need help too, and to remind them that the troop sticks together. On the other hand, I think it would be a mistake to say, "The troop is working on Joe's Eagle Project from 8:00 until noon on Saturday. Everybody is expected to be there unless you have a valid excuse." If there is a problem getting scouts to step up, maybe a Scoutmaster Minute recounting the story of the Little Red Hen would be in order.

[evmori]

Ed, it sounded like you were advising that the troop should not get involved in a troop member's Eagle project and I wanted you to expand on that opinion. If that's not your position, then peace, but then why make that kind of statement in the first place?

 

My statement that An Eagle project isn't a Troop project. There is no requirement for the Troop to help out is a fact. That's why I made that statement.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[committeechair]

An Eagle project must not be scheduled as a "troop activity." And, the Eagle project is the Eagle-To-Be's project, not a troop project. That has been understood by us all along. However, for only one out of a group of 20 or so Scouts, and 2 out of 19 leaders to show, is just horrible. Better odds playing poker in Vegas! The non support of the troop for his fellow Scout is showing a lack of Scout Spirit, and yes, this will hold them back until they start acting like Scouts. I typed up the Scout Law and checked off how much of the law has been disregarded by our troop. Trustworthy (they couldn't be trusted to help); loyal (they aren't showing any loyalty to their fellow Scout); helpful (no help);

Friendly (not friendly when putting down his project, and saying they weren't going to help); Courteous and Kind (nope); Obedient (well, they don't have to obey by attending so this wasn't broken); Cheerful (if they had only said "good luck, sorry I can't be there" they would be showing some cheerfulness)...So 7 out of 12 parts of the law. On the Oath: "To help people at all times." They were not willing to help Eagle To Be.

This past weekend Eagle to be had 1 troop member, and 2 leaders attend from his own troop. From another troop in town, he had 4 young Scouts (11 and 12 yr olds maybe), a friend, a couple of adult leaders from other troops that knew him from Cub Scouts, and his uncle drove over 200 miles each way to attend a few hours. Comments we heard was "this is a great project." And Scoutmaster said that if the troop had come along, very little would have gotten done (from past experience). Our troop is going to be asked again,tonight, to attend the 2nd day of the project this weekend. This is not a 8-12 project. Last Saturday was 7:30a - 6pm.

It is a well though out project that needs a lot of time. However, our troop has always been told they can stay as long as they can. In fact, Eagle to be only had 2 people remain past 2pm. That was fine. And he is very happy they helped out. Eagle-To-Be is less upset about this than I, as Advancement Chair, and the Scoutmaster have been. But Eagle to Be was "prepared" for his troop not to show. And he took it all in stride without any complaints. He didn't even grumble one bit about them not showing. So that shows he has learned something over the last 8 years!

[Newbie Den Leader]

The opening post indicated that one Scout claimed: "This doesn't benefit the community, I am not going."

 

Is that true?

 

I only ask because I read about the community service projects Eagle Scouts perform. Some appear to be very worthy and some appear pretty lame. One service project I read about stated: "Cleaned and organized a resourse closet at XXXX Community Church". While this is worthwhile service to his church, I fail to see how this benefited his community.

[committeechair]

Eagle-To-Be's Eagle project is most definately benefitting the community! If it weren't, our District Eagle chair would have never given the go ahead. His project isn't within the city boundries. Therefore, this 12 year old kid stated it isn't benefitting "our community." The project is mapping and transcribing a historical cemetery, that is quite large for a rural cemetery. Eagle-To-Be has told the troop that this project benefits no only the town, but the state and anyone that is working on their family history. He plans to submit the information to several locations. It is an awsome project. One problem is that the guys in our troop only see planting trees as an eagle project. Our current Scoutmaster has said that our troop will not be planting trees! There are other things that can be done.

When you think about how many families have thrown away their family records, not realizing the importance in them...hopefully Eagle-To-Be can influence one or two of these Scouts to see the importance their family history.

 

[Newbie Den Leader]

committee chair,

 

Thanks for your input. Congrats to your Eagle Scout and a job well done!!

 

--Jeff

[SeattlePioneer]

I'm with those who would leave the responsibility with the Eagle Scout candidate and not try to influence or coerce Scouts into participating.

 

Several people have suggested that young Scouts need to be thinking about the help they may need in a few years. I prefer to look at the young Scouts and see them as a reflection of the leadership provided by the Life Scout in question. If they don't have a sense of Scout spirit and brotherhood, where was the Life Scout when the Troop program was being developed and carried out? Perhaps the Life Scout should have been thinking about the help he might need.

 

Or perhaps this project isn't an especially good Scout outing as it is presently set up. Has the Life Scout considered which boys need Merit Badges and pointed out how participation might meet Merit Badge requirements? Perhaps the Life Scout needs to include some fun activities or Patrol competitions to spark interest among the Scouts.

 

In short, the problem belongs to the Life Scout, not the adults or even the rest of the Scouts. If he can't solve it, he won't be an Eagle Scout.

 

I get tired when I see parents and adults carrying boys from rank to rank. There's an argument for some of that up to First Class, but after that boys should be left largely to themselves to decide if they want to pursue higher ranks.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[Venividi]

What I interprete Seattle Pioneer as saying is: don't discount the possibility that a particular Life scout may not have developed good relationships with other scouts in the troop, and therefore, the other scouts in the are not motivated to go out of their way to help him. i.e. that he was not helpful to the scouts that he now wants to help him.

 

While it may be a case of an individual scout whose chickens have come home to roost, or as others have suggested, an attitude of unhelpfulness that pervades the culture of a particular troop; SeattlePioneer is suggesting that the task of getting others to work on the project belongs to the Life scout, not to the adult scouters.

 

I don't read into his post that meaning to suggest that Eagle Scout projects should be planned so that is also serves as some kind of mini-summer camp with competitions, activities that aren't part of the project, and work toward merit badges. I read his suggestions there could be creative solutions that the scout could use to motivate other scouts to participate; for example, for a project of a coat drive to collect warm clothing for charity, cuold be set up as a competition, with a "reward" for the patrol that collects the most articles of clothing; or for a project to build 25 bluebird houses for a nature center, research whether building said houses would meet a requirement for woodworking badge, and if so, the life scout could arrange for a MB counsellor to teach some skills at the start of his project, and scouts participating in his Eagle project may end up completing a large portion of the MB.

 

SeattlePioneer is proposing that there are other, creative ideas that a Life scout could use, as an alternative to a SM cajoling the scouts.

 

So I see two separate issues: one for the scout to solve, and a general attitude problem to be addressed long term by the SM working with the PLC as EagleDad advises.

[SeattlePioneer]

Thank you, VeniVidi, for your examples and comments. They are very much along the lines I was thinking.

 

A lot of Scouting is about training boys and adults in the fundamentals of leadership. Part of that is learning how to motivate people to do things you would like done.

 

A good Scout leader (adult or youth) will look for ways to use the natural interests of people to get them to co-operate and work together on activities and projects. Using guilt as a motivator is one technique I suppose, but not one I'd care to use very much. Positive appeals built around the genuine interests of people are far more powerful.

 

So I think that a prospective Eagle Scout who wants to attract Scouts to work on his project should look for positive ways to encourage boys to participate. Looking for ways that Scouts can qualify for advancement seems like a perfectly legitimate way to motivate Scouts ---- after all, that's what is motivating the prospective Eagle Scout!

 

The other angle on the example given at the beginning of the thread is to look at the kind of Troop the prospective Eagle Scout has helped build during his time in Scouting. If the program the Scout helped provide doesn't motivate boys to help him, perhaps that Scout deserves a measure of the responsibility for that failure.

 

In short, I continue to resist the idea that ADULTS should help the Eagle candidate out of his problem. I'd talk to him about it, and offer him some ideas about how he might solve it. But providing the leadership that gets people to turn out to do the project is the responsibility of the Eagle candidate.

 

If adults do it for him, then he's just another boy who didn't deserve Eagle but was carried into the Eagle's nest by adults who wouldn't permit him to fail.

 

I spend a lot of my time working with and encouraging young Scouts to complete First Class. After that, I don't push 'em and I don't pull 'em.

 

Why bother? Unfortunately, there are 'way too many parents and adult Scouters who will do that.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

 

 

 

[Huntr]

Mapping the cemetery sounds like and EXCELLENT service project to me. This is something that will continue on thru time, and be a lasting contribution to his community. There are also projects on the internet with groups doing just this activity. It would be a great idea for him to contact these groups and see if they would like his information.

My project was building furniture that I designed for the kids room at a local wildlife preserve. This was back in the summer of '89. The furniture is still in use to this day, and I have even had other Eagle candidates request copies of my plans so that they could build the same furniture for their local parks.

In my Troop, Scouts were not "required" to help on Eagle projects, but we all understood that what goes around, comes around. Thus, all Eagle projects were heavily attended.