Eagle-to-be not supported by troop

[committeechair]

Our troop has a Scout who has been in the Scouting program longer than any of the rest. He went all the way from Wolf Cub to Arrow of light, then directly into the troop. He is 15, and most of the troop is 13. Scout is the Asst SPL.

Scout has had his Eagle project ideas approved by the District Adv. Chair, as well as the Troop Committee Chair (not me, I am now a MC, and Adv. Chair), and SM. Next weekend is the planned date for the project. He announced the date, and what the project entailed to our troop a month ago. This week when he passed out the invites and sign up sheet in our troop, he was told by one Scout, "This doesn't benefit the community, I am not going." Scout explained how it benefited the community, and that it has been approved. He was very patient with the troop, although he is getting tired of Scouts because of the way the youngers act. Out of 21 Scouts, he only had 3 sign his sheet, and one will not be there (his ASM grandfather said he couldn't be there). Scout went to other troops in town, and had several people sign up for the project. We have been having trouble with the Scouts lately being disrespectful to both Troop leadership and adults. I have told the adult leaders that something needs to be done to get the Scouts to be "helpful" to the Eagle to be, but I have been told "We can't make them do what they don't want to do." While that is absolutely true, I believe that they need to be strongly encouraged to volunteer, as that counts as "Scout spirit." Has anyone ran into a similar problem?

Scout is at the point he is happy to have other troops helping, and doesn't pay any mind to the cold response from his troop. However, as an adult leader, I am about to throw in the towel. I am just sticking it out for our 3 oldest (15 year olds) Scout to make sure they see Eagle! By the way, the other 15 year olds have become less active, but I am determined to see them through Eagle. They are Life, but still have several badges to earn first.

[scoutldr]

Is it just a problem with this scout, or would they not be interested in helping with ANY Eagle project? You might explain to them that they ALL need service hours...who is going to help with THEIR advancement?

[TheScout]

This is the leadership part of the Eagle Scout project. Sometimes leadership is getting people to do things that they do not want to do.

[SueM]

You might also remind them that someday it will be THEIR turn to be asking for help on their

Eagle projects and if they don't support the others now, why should they expect support when their time comes!!!

 

I have an issue in my own troop with the attitude from the boys that when you ask them why they want to become an Eagle Scout, the only reason they give is that "it looks good on a college application (or job resume)" and this perception is promoted by a good many of the other adult male leaders too!! I sat down with my Life scouts about a month ago and we had an Eagle project workshop and I went over how to fill out the project books..what I expected to see in a presentation and to specifically talk about this but I started to address the perception of only doing it because it "looked good" with them and as I was trying to get the other points of it being a leadership thing, in walks an adult and says "and it really looks good on a college application!"....I could have SCREAMED!!

 

Sue M.

[acco40]

Why are the boys in Scouting? Not the parents reasons but the boys.

 

Would you volunteer to help a Scout on his Eagle project? I'd look at the following before I committed my time: 1) has this Scout helped me out in my times of "need", 2) is his activity well thought out and planned, 3) is food being provided, 4) are proper facilities available (bathrooms, running water, tools, etc., 5) has he looked to fellow students, siblings, friends, parents, etc. (no requirement exists for only fellow Scouts to help out).

 

Yes, as SM, I too get frustrated at the multitude of Scouts and especially their parents who are only in Scouting for appearance (i.e. looks good on a resume, etc.) but it is really their loss and not mine if they don't get any real benefit from their scouting experience.

[ScoutNut]

Of course there is more to achieving the rank of Eagle. But what they get out of it is not JUST from those last 6 months of Life or from doing the Eagle Project. The real benefit of earning Eagle is from all of the years they have been learning about their world and learning various skills, including leadership. They don't suddenly learn leadership from doing an Eagle Project. That should be a showcase of the skills that they have picked up over their years in Scouts, WITHOUT EVER KNOWING THEY ARE LEARNING THEM. Earning Eagle is great, it's wonderful, but it is NOT necessary, in most cases they already have the skills. And the truth of the matter is, for these boys in high school, one of the MAJOR reasons they even consider bothering to earn Eagle is for what it can do for them.

 

The same is true for Girl Scouts working toward their Girl Scout Gold Award. They have spent years growing in skills, leadership & self confidence. They also do not need to earn their highest Scouting honor in order to benefit from Scouts.

 

Why then do these boys & girls stay in Scouts in high school? They might like the program & enjoy the activities, but realistically, they have a LOT more on their plates in high school. They need to allocate a lot more time to schoolwork, especially if they are in honors or AP classes. High school sports takes up way more time than grammar, middle school or park district. They have clubs they get involved in that also take up a lot of their time, especially if they are service (Snowball, SADD, Habitat for Humanity) or learning (Model UN, Engineering). They play in bands & act in theater productions. Many even have part time jobs. Why, with all of this, should they 1) stay in Scouts & 2) earn their Scouting program's highest award/rank?

 

For many of these kids the MAJOR reason is "it looks good on an application". There is nothing wrong with this. It is a VERY valid reason. For those planning on going to college, this thought is behind many of the decisions they make about the classes they take, the clubs they join & the activities they do from the first day of their first year in high school. Some even earlier. Earning the BSA Eagle or the GSUSA Gold just might be the deciding factor of weather or not they get accepted to the school of their choice, or receive that important scholarship that enables them to even go to college at all! For those going into the workforce after high school, earning the Eagle or Gold might mean the difference between a good or bad job, higher pay, or more opportunities at work.

 

So, please don't scream, or downplay that as a reason. It is actually one of the best.

 

I will now step down from my soapbox & let the discussion return to the original question!

 

[SueM]

Scoutnut

 

I'm not going to belabor the subject either because it is a bit off the original question (for which I apologize for the side track) but just a quick comment and then no more...I see those things as a -benefit- of becoming an Eagle and not the only reason to do it.

 

To the original question, I still would encourage the whole troop to participate as much as possible any time one comes up. I think that by helping at these projects, it helps the younger boys see both what work is involved in doing them and it may also start to help them form ideas for their own future projects.

 

Sue M.

[Mike F]

Perhaps the SM needs to make it more clear to all involved that any troop service project (Eagle or otherwise) is an "all hands on deck" activity. That's exactly the words one SM I know uses.

 

Sounds like there's a selfish attitude prevailing in this troop. Not unusual - especially in a younger group. But they need to be challenged to get involved and participate in service. Maybe even pushed. All things being equal, they often won't choose to serve others when the alternative is to spend a Saturday morning watching cartoons or playing Nintardo. But this shouldn't be posed as a simple matter of them showing up to serve if they want to. If phrased this way, most won't go. Instead, set the bar a little higher and make it clear they are expected to support.

 

It will be hard at first, because the scouts will only see it as a pain, not any fun, or as that 4-letter word, work. But as they serve, find ways to have a little fun and give them praise for whatever difference they are making in the community. Slowly theyll come to understand the value in what theyre doing and theyll get a warm feeling from the good theyre doing. And theyll be building friendships as they work side-by-side with their fellow scouts.

 

Another thought. Does your troop keep records of participation in all troop activities? If youve set the expectation that they support all troop activities (meetings, campouts, service projects, etc.), you should keep records so you know who is making the effort. These kinds of records are very valuable during SM conference when discussing the scouts level of activity and how hes growing in scouting. I wouldnt recommend setting participation requirements, per se, but would consider it a negative worth discussing if a scout is only showing up for the fun events or the ones that benefit mostly him, and are skipping the rest.

 

Somehow, you have to get the discussion beyond, Whats in it for me? Of course, the answer is "By helping out, you'll get that good feeling that you've done something unselfish for someone else or make this world a better place and youll grow in the process. But theyre not going to understand those words, so youre going to have to push, pull, lead and cajole them to the point where it becomes part of them.

 

Good luck!

 

-mike

 

[Hunt]

At a Life-to-Eagle conference I attended recently, the presenter stressed that the Eagle project is not a troop activity--that, in fact, the troop has nothing to do with it (other than approving it). It is strictly the candidate's project and it is his responsibility to find the labor force to do the work. I'm not suggesting (nor was the presenter) that the boys in the troop shouldn't help, but I think I agree that the leaders shouldn't require them to do so, or penalize them for not doing so. The candidate can do his whole project with non-scouts, as long as he shows leadership.

[TheScout]

"I learned that a great leader is a man who has the ability to get other people to do what they don't want to do and like it." -Harry S. Truman(This message has been edited by TheScout)

[anarchist]

committeechair,

 

Several things here, first I wonder if there is a "split" in the troop between the "olders and the youngers". You note the 15 yr olds "have become less active"...just wondering here, but there might be some "ill will" surfacing. Several years ago I watched the "youngers" in our troop "jamb" an "older" who had "rubbed them the wrong way"... but he felt he "deserved" to be SPL...Ahh, the wonders of democracy in action! And your comment on seeing "them through Eagle" is worrisome...it is "their" Eagle to earn...not yours to sheperd them through...If they require you to keep them in program I would be worried that something is definitely amiss and not with the 13 yr olds.

 

Sometimes the older guys get the "we're cool - scoutings not" blues and drift in and out, and sometimes the younger boys resent it..not right...not scout like (?), but bears looking at!

Perhaps, here, the older scout should also consider having a second day to give more chances for assistance?...I have always disliked single day Eagle projects. Two separate work days makes it harder to "dodge" and gives opportunity for more planning, scheduling and activities.

 

Good news, one of the best projects I have seen in recent years, had three work days and only about half of the 55 boys in our troop worked (given three days to sign up!). But that young man scheduled family, church members, school friends and even the local volunteer fire station to help! AWESOME job! So your Eagle needs to look to other resources.

 

He also needs to approach more Scouts one on one (its harder to say no)! And then Email each Troop parent, letting them know of his plans and his needs...some times us "oldests" just load up the "shanghi-ed" "youngers" (labor) and show up anyway!

 

Institutionally, the committee and the SM/ASM corp (program) need to sit down over a pot of coffee and work on instilling the idea of service in these boys...to community, to friends, and family, to other scouts, and even strangers. From time to time I have been known to go on an email "rant" to "encourage" boys and families to participate...

 

I let it be known that I am asked to sit on most of the Boards of Review, and between my "hard nose" and the Scout Masters fear that I will stop feeding him good food and great coffee...advancement is going to be very hard for boys who do not show scout spirit and become real...friendly, loyal, helpful, kind, obedient and do it cheerfully...real fast!

It generally works...most of the time...but sometimes folks just have other plans...and a one day time frame just doesn't work for them...Good luck, but it sounds like some hard work needs to be done with both the "youngers" and "olders".

anarchist

[committeechair]

Some questions posed was: 1) has this Scout helped me out in my times of "need", 2) is his activity well thought out and planned, 3) is food being provided, 4) are proper facilities available (bathrooms, running water, tools, etc., 5) has he looked to fellow students, siblings, friends, parents, etc

1. yes 2. yes 3. yes 4. yes 5. yes.

Scout has attended the majority of Eagle projects in our small town over the last 5 years he has been in Scouting. The cost of food is his biggest expense, and that was properly detailed in his write-up. Bathrooms are provided, as is the tissue, water and soap for cleaning hands. And last, he has mailed out at least a dozen letters, and has visited the local troops with invitations in hand. He has explained the project, and who is benefiting, and answered questions posed by the troops, including our own.

Our Troop isn't the one who had to approve the project (other than the SM and Committee Chair person, and I, the Adv. Chair had to verify he had all badge requirements met). It is our District Eagle Advancement Chair who has the final say, and he is a tough one. He was very impressed with Scouts pre-project write-up.

We only have 21 on our roster (16 are regulars). In the other 3 troops, I think there are 15, 15, 10. Scouting is not looked at with high regards in our community, and we are constantly trying to work on the problem by doing service for churches, and parks, etc.

As far as the Youngers vs. Olders go, the youngers are always wondering "whats in it for me." Service for others just... they have been very selfish and it is keeping many from advancing for lack of "Scout spirit." In our troop, the Senior patrol must be high school and at least 14. We have a few who have balked this past year because they want to be Senior Patrol Leaders, and whine "but I can do a better job." These same kids yell at others, are disrepectful to adult and Scout leaders, and refuse to do what they are supposed to do on campouts (set up their tents, cook when it is their turn, etc). It is "me, me, me, why didn't I get..." The olders are 10th grade, and half are in sports that require them to be out of town on Saturdays. Eagle-To-Be has been in the high school band, and for his grades he must be at all Friday football games. There is band/marching practice 4 nights a week. Luckily, our troop meeting night is not one of them! However, he still regards meeting night above the band, and if practice is rescheduled to troop night, he tells his teacher he cannot attend band. Scout has only missed one meeting night and one campout over the last couple of years. One night was due to a band concert (grade related) and the campout was missed due to a UIL event (also grade related).

Scout will be the troops first Eagle in almost 3 years. We have no other Eagles registered. He also is the most active, and has strived to earn the most badges in our troop. He is quiet, and never boasts about what badges he has earned. He is Assistant Senior Patrol Leader. Both the SPLs are contantly talked back to. It isn't a problem with the SPLs, it is with the youngers not wanting to be the bottom man on the totem pole! One problem may be the fact that Scout is the SM son (however, he was already a Life Scout before his dad became SM).

Scout service should be performed because you want to help others. However, it really shines badly on the troop when there is a lack of volunteers. But, we were not reponsible to raise these children to care about others before they joined Scouts. We can only hope that one day they will start acting on that Scout Oath and law they recite weekly. And they are reminded of why they are in Scouting. It just seems that 3/4 of the kids are in the troop for baby sitting!

I guess we could just blame the Eagle to Be for not convincing the younger boys to participate. But in this case, nintendo, cartoons, cokes and candies on Saturday mornings from their parents who have over-indulged them to make up for time not spent with them is too big of a force. He should be proud that he has convinced the other troops to show, and he has a good family base to depend on.

 

As far as the comment that I shouldn't be in this to see the other Olders reach Eagle... Well, they might not reach Eagle. They have a ways to go. But as Adv. Chair I regularly give each and every Scout a printout of what they have, and what they need for their next rank. Most ignore the report. But I will stay in to see these boys to either Eagle or the end of their Scouting. And I totally disagree it is only the boys job. As far as doing the work, it is absolutely the boys job, and only his job. But, it is my job as a leader to lead By directing them onto the right path! If I sat and did nothing, I'd be just a Baby Sitter of America!

[eagle97_78]

Time and time again we see the same old problems with the youth of today. I had the same problem when I did my eagle project when I was younger. It is the boy's job to lead and get help for the project, but it is hard when you have young boy's that don't want to work hard for what they have they want it handed to them. This young man sounds like he is very dedicated to the program and it sounds like he will be around for the longest of time.

 

My recommendation for this young man is that he go on with his project as planned. Keep the numbers of people that he has helping and just keep up the great job. Most of the scouts in the troop sound like they want to be plastic (or fake) Eagle Scouts. They want everything handed to them or they are just there because there parents want them to be there. This seems to be a huge problem with some of the young men in scouts these days.

 

You as the committee chair might want to look at the program and how to deal with the situations like these. You might want to ask the eagle to be to leave the room or talk to the group as a whole and remind them of the Scout Oath and Law. Remind them about " doing a good turn daily."

[evmori]

An Eagle project isn't a Troop project. There is no requirement for the Troop to help out.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[John-in-KC]

I have a couple of thoughts:

 

First, it seems to me the youth in committeechairs' Troop need some training on the Scout Law:

 

A Scout is Helpful

A Scout is Friendly

and a Scout is Cheeful

 

In fact, I would go so far as to say: The SM and committeechair need to put their heads together and have a few out-of-cycle Scoutmaster Conferences and Boards of Review. If it were my Troop, I might even have parents sitting "in the bleachers."

 

I'd ask some very pointed questions about how a SM could sign off on Scout Spirit for their next advancement if they are not honoring the Scout Law. Right now, given the information at hand, these youth are not honoring the Scout Law. Arm twisting is a method to be used judiciously, but it does get results.

 

No, an Eagle project is NOT a Troop project, but it's not unreasonable to expect the youth and leaders of a Troop to support an Eagle project. It's a simple concept, really: TEAMWORK!