Is this a Safe and/or Smart activity?

[scoutingagain]

Just one more observation on hatchet throwing. As I mentioned we had an opportunity to do this, this past summer. This was the first time any of us in the unit had tried this. As others have indicated, getting a hatchet to stick in a target is not all that easy. We were given instructions and some suggestions, including "keep your wrist stiff and follow through." Success was determined not so much by brut strength but who listened to instructions and application of technique. One of the scouts that had been struggling on the hike and was, how can I say, had not necessarily endeared himself to the other scouts, (a bit of a loner, not the most athletic among the group). After watching several of the older scouts fail to have the the hatchet stick in the target, had his turn. (Their initial attempts were to just throw hard.) After a few snide comments from the peanut gallery this scout then scored three successful hits in a row. His stock among the other scouts immediately went up. They asked what he was doing that worked, could they watch him throw, etc. Just one of those great scouting moments. Is it a skill needed today? No, but it is a skill that made that scout on that day!

 

Oh...for the record, I had the highest score among the adults!

 

SA

[nldscout]

Scoutnut,

In answer to you question we do this at Boy Scout Resident Camp and have done it own a set of throwing hatchetts and brings then to a lot of district events.

 

I would caution that a 20 ft circle is WAY to Small an area to be safe.

 

Our standard is 50ft roped off on each side and the back and a do not cross line 15ft behind the thrower for spectaters.

 

I just looked at the G2SS and I see nothing that bars this type of event from any age scout. you should not read into the age appropriate guidelines on tools to include these. Throwing hatchetts are not a woods tool. They are not designed to be used to chop wood, infact if the owner of a set of them caught a scout chopping a tree with them he probably would be very upset.

[CNYScouter]

Tomahawk throwing sounds like the type of activity that would really spark interest in a Troop.

 

Any suggestion in getting started with this type of activity?

[ScoutingEMT]

I think it could be a real neat activity, but must be done with proper respect for the tool, as well as proper supervision, also with a "don't try this at home" speech.

 

As for the BB shooting.... This has occured on weekend troop trips to established camps.... one that is usually a "day" camp, and the other one a resident summer camp. Both BSA, and both supervised appropriatly.

 

Jon

[frankpalazzi]

I know this is a six year old topic BUT:

 

My district just started doing this at their camporees, and I'm having concerns. I have been assured that a "certified range instructor" handles the Tomahawk range. Is there such a thing as a Certified Tomahawk Range Instructor? Sorry, archery/rifle certs don't cut it here for me; this is NOT the same thing. What does the training involve? Who implements the training? Where can I find some information on setups, safety, etc?

I've never had to "pull rank" as a CC/COR before, but I am going to drop in on this weekend's camporee. If I don't like what I see, I'm banning the Troop from participating in the activity. I don't see how an organization that bans LASER TAG, can allow THIS!

 

Any links to further information would be most helpful! Thanks! I worked hard to buy my home, and would like to keep it--sorry, I'm just funny that way!

[OldGreyEagle]

Check the Guide to Safe Scouting

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss07.aspx#e

 

In the Shooting Sports section is says:

 

Archery and Knife and Tomahawk Throwing

These are approved activities for Boy Scouts and Venturers following the Sweet 16 of BSA Safety.

 

Now, they won't be throwing the 'hawks at animal shapes and as long as the "range" is marked off and there is a backstop to stop the 'hawks or a very long distance no one can throw, and everybody stands behind the "firing line" then fine.

 

Imagine the excitement in the school corridor as the youth explain what they did that week end, threw a tomahawk... and made it stick is even cooler.

 

Hope they use throwin' 'hawks as they are balanced for best results. I have three myself, have my target that I set up in the backyard. First time I did it, the sound of the 'hawk burying itself in the wood made a nice "thud" the kids playing a few houses over stopped to take notice and were enthralled. It took all the self control I have, and thats not a lot, to not say, "told you kids to stay out of my yard"!

 

(This message has been edited by oldgreyeagle)

[SeattlePioneer]

Where's Kudu when you need him?

[JMHawkins]

The current Varsity program guide has a section on tomahawk throwing under the Frontiersman activity. Looks like it would be really cool and fun.

 

But to get to FrankScout's comment, I think he's perfectly justified in asking how he can verify his District is doing this responsibly. Obviously we can't just turn a bunch of boys loose chucking axes back and forth. If nothing else, we'd have to take away all their Totin' Chips. Besides, I'd like to know what requirements somebody has to pass to become a certified Tomahawk range instructor so I can go pass them!

 

Hopefully Frank gets a satisfactory answer and one of the patrols in his unit wins the Tomahawk throw...

[John-in-KC]

As the COR, he can:

 

1) Contact the District Chairman and the Chair of the District Activities Operating Committee and ask for details, to include training, safety standards in place, and so on.

 

2) If the District Chair and Activities Chair are unresponsive, he can ask the DE ... or move up the Professional chain, as he sees fit.

 

3) Sit down with the SM, CC, and SPL and say "In the interests of the Chartered Partner, you will not go." There is a downside risk: The unit leadership walks out. Asserting ownership is the most powerful tool in the COR's toolbox, and needs to be used with great care.

 

As an aside, I know a Scout Reservation that has an axe-throwing yard as an activity ... so there have to be some form of safety standards out there somewhere.

 

Like others, I hope good answers flow Frank's way!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[acco40]

As stated by OGE, from the G2SS,

Archery and Knife and Tomahawk Throwing

These are approved activities for Boy Scouts andVenturers following the Sweet 16 of BSA Safety. Qualified Supervision, Physical Fitness, Buddy System, Safe Area, Equipment selection & maintenance, Personal safety equipment, safety procedures & policies, skill level, weather check, planning, communication and permits, first aid resources, applicable laws, CPR resource, disciple. For this particular event, emphasis should be placed on qualified supervision, safe area, equipment selection, safety procedures, applicable laws and discipline.

 

Since this is a Webelos recruitment event, assume the Scouts are 5th graders and only a few months before crossing over to Boy Scouts. At our district recruitment activity we have Webelos do Boy Scout "stuff" (fire building, totin' chip, firem'n chit, etc. but not axe throwing. So, I would clear the event with district/council folks but I think permission could be granted. I would not allow non-Webelos (siblings, friends, other Cub Scouts, nor parents) to participate. The emphasis should be on the Webelos at an event like this.

 

Now, make sure there are no human silhouette targets!

[Eagle92]

Back in the day, my old council had a MEGA event in which all Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, and Explorers attended ( I told you it was back in tha day ) my lodge ran a tomahawk toss event for Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, Explorers, and adults only, NO CUB SCOUTS. And since Webelos are still Cub Scouts, they could not do it.

[TAHAWK]

If Mom says, "You can have one cookie," she does not mean you can take 2 or more.

 

If BSA says the activity is approved for Boy Scout and Venturers, it is not approved for Webelos or Cubs.

 

I have no idea what all the implications are for a unit -- or district or council -- putting on an unapproved activity, but responsible persons should think about all the implications and possible consequences of what they are doing.

 

Violation of established safety standards is evidence of negligence in a civil action (AKA "lawsuit") in most states.

 

I would be more than fifteen feet behind a child throwing a hawk. I have seen them loose their grip on the back-swing.

[nldscout]

I hope like heck Frank didn't stick his nose into something he shouldn't have and destroy the troop through his lack of knowledge.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Let me first say we are discussing Tomahawk throwing, which does not use hatchets. DO NOT TRY THIS WITH HATCHETTS. Yes, there is a safety concern here, and no BSA has not published a guide specifically for this, that Im aware of. Ive seen, and participated, in hawk throwing at BSA events. I see nothing wrong with it, if handled correctly. I suggest applying the same rules as archery, with the same type of setup, with two exceptions: 1. The target needs to be thick, and sturdy, a cross section of log on legs works well. 2. Spacing, scouts must not be lined up side by side, unless spaced quite far apart. One participant at a time is best, or line up with about 20 feet of spacing between participants.

 

I strongly suggest using a range for this, the area behind the target needs to be a full no access area, ultimately ending with a hard barrier, or earthen bank. 20 feet, is not enough distance to be safe. I also suggest getting a copy of the guidelines used at the high adventure bases. As far as ages, this is no more dangerous than archery, Id use archery guidelines for age.

 

[Oak Tree]

We've done this with the pack. With proper supervision, it does not seem all that dangerous. I guess I'd recommend watching it and seeing how it's working before deciding whether it seems dangerous or not.

 

We've had a few injuries over the years, but I can't remember any that happened in a controlled environment. Seems like free play is the most dangerous thing the kids can do.