schleining Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Well its that time of the year again when leaders frantically try to get all their paperwork in order and figure out just who is leading this organization and who is showing up... oh and who has not yet paid... It's the recharter Blues.... For most of us its not that big an issue, but I ran into an interesting note that I was unaware of until this morning. We have an OUTSTANDING Assistant Scoutmaster in our Troop, he is always there, a great teacher, the kind of guy you can always turn to. Well, this guy was elected as our CO Executive officer a couple months ago. We did nothing about it, knowing recharter was coming up and we would fix it all then. Turns out the Executive Officer CAN NOT be an Assistant Scoutmaster in the Troop. he can hold Committee jobs, but he can't be an ASM. So we can not recharter him as an ASM, which will effect his Tenure in that position. Can anyone (because my local council can't) tell why an EO can not be an ASM. Other than - "thats the BSA policy" which I will support, I can not for the life of me figure out why this is. There is no conflict of interest that I can see. Jerry Learning something new daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperParatus Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I feel your pain. As EO, he would be in a position to approve, or have his direct report (the COR) approve, his application as ASM. I think that is where the conflict of interest could arise. Granted, the CC must also approve an application (after the unit has performed the necessary reference checks), although the CC is ultimately reports to the COR (and EO by extension). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schleining Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 That is correct... However, if we make him a member of the Committee he will have the same effect as he will have a vote. Unless he abstains from every vote the same conflict will arise until he is no longer the Executive Officer. And the wheels on the bus go round and round... Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nldscout Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 My question would be who is your sponsor that he could be the EO. How do you get elected EO? Baring that who said the EO cannot serve as an ASM? The EO is not even a leadership position on the charter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schleining Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 Our Sponsor/Charter Organization is the Knights of Columbus Council #3179. They hold election every year for the officers of the Council to serve one year terms. Therefore the Executive for our recharter can change every year. The BSA says that the EO can not be an ASM. The EO can hold positions on the committee as well as the COR, but can not be the SM or ASM. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 "The BSA says that the EO can not be an ASM." Not doubting you, but where does it say that, I'd like to read more about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schleining Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 I am not sure where it is written... I wish I did.. My Council office told me this and when working with Troop master it won't allow it either. I also had a lengthy talk with my DE and he was not sure, but is looking into it. I really wish I knew. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Jerry, Take a DEEP breath, working your ticket Beaver, and relax!!!! Executive Officer of your Chartered Partner means your ASM can take up any duties he wants!!!! He can actually serve the duties of an ASM at meetings and camps if he so desires. He just has a different patch on his left shoulder. He has a vote on the Committee as well ... in fact, he has 51% of the vote automatically. As the EO, his responsibility is to ensure both the Committees and the Program Officers receive support from the chartered partner. He is also the voice of all units in the councils of the chartered partner (whereas the COR ensures the program officers and committees carry out the program IAW Scouting and the chartered partners desires). Just make sure someone in his family is on the charter as a PAYING member, so he can continue to get Scouting magazine and the various media your Council publishes. This is a win-win!!! YIS(This message has been edited by John-in-KC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backpacker Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I agree thats a good question. The only answer I could find was that the EO appears as a position on the charter, he approves and signs the charter and holds the power of the CO, so as an ASM there is a perceived notion that there could be a potential for a conflict of interest. The only dual position allowed in scouting , as we all know, is that the COR and CC which can be the same person. It is a shame though that he will lose his tenure in, I would suggest you have him contact the KoC Grand Knight and have some other knight be the EO of record so your ASM could continue to serve where he wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 "... he has 51% of the vote automatically." What does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gags Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I'm not quite sure what an EO of a KofC Council is. In my limited knowledge of the Knights (dues paying member, but those darn meetings fall on the same nights as RT and Dist Comm Mtg), I haven't heard of a EO position. Was he elected Grand Knight? Is it possible for the Deputy Grand Knight, Past Grand Knight, or maybe even the Pastor of the affiliated Church be the one to sign the Charter? Or, uh, maybe, you know, just add an extra letter or middle initial to his name to see if Troop Master will accept it as a "new" entry. Darn those fat fingers... Gags PS - Otherwise, who says a comm. member can't play the role of an ASM for a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Gags, Executive Officer (nee` Institutional Head) is a Scouting term, not a KofC term. To me, what's implied is the gentleman Jerry speaks of is now an official of the chapter. Where he is in the food chain and what he does ... we'll have to ask Jerry. As to being an ASM and a Committee member, if your council is on the internet recharter, then you have to choose. The machine won't let you be both. That said, lots of smaller troops have folks serving de facto as ASMs who are on the Committee, or de facto on the Committee when they are ASMs. As far as 51% of the vote goes: The Chartered Partner OWNS the Scout units it charters. Read your charter. If the Chartered Partner has a particular policy they want to impose (quarterly inspections of the troop trailer contents, annual audit of the books, whatever), the rest of the Committee has a choice: Accept the decision, or accept the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schleining Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 EO in the Knights is the Grand Knight. Elected by the Council. The Executive "Branch" of the Council is the Grand Knight, the Deputy Grand Knight, and the Trustees. By default the Grand Knight is the EO of the Chartering Organization. As our Council charters a Cub Scout Pack, Boy Scout Troop, and as of tomorrow a Venturing Crew. An update- We finished the recharter.. everything went well. I Chartered him as the EO only and then went down and put his application back in as a paid member (ASM). So we had to work around the system, my DE did not understand why we could not do it in the recharter, but helped walk it thru. A tad bit confusing, but we got thru it. And we don't have to worry about it for another year. KC- we are right... it is a win-win. But we do want him to not loose Tenure and recieve the benie's of Scouting Mag. etc. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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