Tote n Chip

[giddonah]

I'm a new leader of 11yr olds. IIRC, this is what lets you use a pocket knife at camp. Can you pass this off before camp? Once you pass it off, do you have to redo the whole thing at each camp?

[SemperParatus]

Second Class Requirement 2c must be completed on a campout. Second Class Requirement 2d need not be completed during a campout, although that would certainly be the most opportune time and place. The Totin' Chip requirements do not require that they be completed during a campout. Re-testing at each campout is not required.

 

 

[drakmund]

I've been the New Scout Patrol ASM for the last several years, and I'm also a Scout Camp Scout Skills director. The first year program I run for the troop I start off with the scout rank requirements then the following meeting I go over 2 things Camping Basics and Totin Chip.

 

The reason I teach them Totin Chip so early is that I know that most parents give them a pocket knife when they join scouts. Once they are taught Totin Chip they should be given a Totin Chip card which they sign on the back. If they miss use their knife or any woods tools you are supposed to cut a corner off their card. Once all 4 corners are cut they lose their Totin Chip and must retest. In a serious case they may lose their Totin Chip right away without any corners being cut.

 

As for when, I would test them before so they know the rules for camp.(This message has been edited by drakmund)

[ScoutNut]

As an FYI -

 

"If they miss use their knife or any woods tools you are supposed to cut a corner off their card. Once all 4 corners are cut they lose their Totin Chip and must retest. In a serious case they may lose their Totin Chip right away without any corners being cut."

 

This is a local addition to the requirements for earning a "Totin' Chip" and is not a BSA regulation.

 

[FScouter]

The requirements to pass 2nd class requirement 2C are spelled out in the Handbook. Totin Chip requirements include the 2C requirement, plus 5 more requirements. See page 85 of the Handbook, or the back of the card.

 

Interestingly, there is no specific requirement that the Totin Chip be earned or 2C be passed before a boy may carry a knife. More important is that as adult leaders, we have a duty to instill in boys the knowledge of how to use and handle knives, axes, hatchet, and saws with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

 

I disagree with the idea that it is OK for a Scout to use a knife or axe even though he has demonstrated unsafe practices multiple times. If a boy has been unsafe 2 or 3 times (corners cut off) shall I happily let him continue on his merry way? NOT!

 

[drakmund]

FScouter, the point of cutting corners on Totin Chip is if they do something minor like forgetting to cut away. The corner gets taken off and they have a sit down chat with an adult or Troop Guide about what they did wrong. Some troops will remove Totin Chip for any offense and make them re-learn but that is up to the troop to decide.

[ManyIrons]

Here! Here! to ScoutNut and FScouter.

 

I guess Im in the minority that doesnt see the need for either the card or cutting the corners. Im all for the instruction, but I wish BSA would just add it all to the rank requirements.

 

However, until such time, I will continue to see that our new Scouts receive the instruction, but I wont cut corners off the card. If theres an infraction, our leaders will deal with it on the spot. If its a serious incident well involve the parents and committee.

 

I dont see the need for anything else.

 

[ScoutNut]

Don't know about your group, but with ours, you would be hard pressed to find even 1 boy who can still produce the card after having it in their hands for 1 day, much less a whole month.

 

They live in black holes called rooms & carry numerous smaller black holes (called pockets by some folks) around with them. What goes in very seldom ever sees the light of day again! And, if by some miracle, it does resurface, it is usually barely recognizable!

 

[FScouter]

I hear ya. I can't count the number of times a boy has come to me and said "I can't find my Totin' Chip card, can I have another one?" Or, "I forgot to bring my Totin' Chip card, can I use my knife?"

[Greying Beaver]

Re: kid's room = black hole, etc. Betcha my kid's room is a deeper, darker black hole than your kid's!

 

The Totin' Chip is a good idea that won't go away. Why not make the 2ndClass requirements and the Totin' Chip requirements the same and be done with it? The youngster learns the skills and the appreciation for the tools ans well. It's that Totin' Chip patch that's got my feathers a bit out of position. We've got NSP guys who appearently earned the Totin' Chip as Webelos and wear the patch on the right pocket flap >8-(! It's a temporary patch worn on the right pocket, but their WDL said that he was told the Totin'Chip patch is worn on the right pocket flap. He could not recall where he had heard of that. The WDL's in my grandson's pack has never heard of such a thing. Anybody got any ideas?

 

Heck, my old Totin' Chip card (with all corners intact) has begun to turn back into celuose. But then again I don't see knives in use in camp like when I was a scout.

[FScouter]

The only patch the goes on the right pocket flap is the OA flap. Despite the strange geometrical shape, the Totin' Chip patch goes on a brag rag, back pack, sweatshirt, or the right pocket of the uniform shirt, but not on the flap.

[msnowman]

Greying Eagle said "We've got NSP guys who appearently earned the Totin' Chip as Webelos and wear the patch on the right pocket flap >8-(! It's a temporary patch worn on the right pocket, but their WDL said that he was told the Totin'Chip patch is worn on the right pocket flap. He could not recall where he had heard of that. The WDL's in my grandson's pack has never heard of such a thing. Anybody got any ideas?"

 

Perhaps their WDL is confusing the Boy Scout Totin' Chip Patch with the Cub Scout Whittlin' Chip Patch? AFAIK Cubs (including Webelos) can earn the Whittlin' Chip and the Totin' Chip is the realm of Boy Scouts. Perhaps I'm the one who is missing a piece here...not for the first or last time. Anyway, there is a Whittlin' Chip patch, similar to the Totin' Chip patch and just about as official, meaning it is a temp patch and better suited to a Patch Vest or blanket or rotated off the right pocket when replaced by a cooler temporary patch, especially now that Cub Scouts have an Outdoor award patch that goes on their pocket flap.

 

YMMV & IMBW

YiS

Michelle

CM _ P102

 

 

 

[ManyIrons]

Here! Here! again ScoutNut. The last time I saw a Totin' Chip produced it was rather lumpy and didn't have any discernable corners. Good thing I'm not into that corner-cutting thing

 

Okay, I did a crazy thing and went and read the Totin' Chip card. Now I'm even more confused.

 

According to the front of the card, the only requirement to issue it is for the Scout to read the "woods tools use and safety rules" and acknowledge that "ownership or use of woods tools means responsibility" and "accepts it". No fuss, no muss. "I read it, you bethca, where's my card Mr. Scoutmaster?". Note: I know it's not that simple, but you get my drift.

 

"In consideration of the above, he is hereby granted Totin' Rights". Thus, perhaps the evolution of the "I forgot my Totin' Chip, can I still use my knife?" conversation FScouter referred to.

 

The back of the card says "I will take this card to my Scout leader, or someone designated by my leader and do the following: . . " , but he doesn't actually have to do any of the actions listed, except the first one which is required to get the card (which he already has . . . hmmmmmmmm)

 

And, the same holds true for the Firem'n Chit!!

 

AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHA!!

 

[acco40]

The wording below appears in the 2003 Boy Scout Requirements Book (#33215F). The introductory text in the book reads as follows:

 

This certification grants a Scout the right to carry and use woods tools. The Scout must show his Scout leader, or someone designated by his leader, that he understands his responsibility to do the following:

 

1) Read and understand woods tools use and safety rules from the Boy Scout Handbook.

2) Demonstrate proper handling, care, and use of the pocket knife, ax, and saw.

3) Use the knife, ax, and saw as tools, not playthings.

4) Respect all safety rules to protect others.

5) Respect property. Cut living and dead trees only with permission and with good reason.

6) Subscribe to the Outdoor Code.

 

The Scout's "Totin' Rights" can be taken from him if he fails in his responsibility. {Emphasis is mine.}

 

The wording on the back of the Totin' Chip Card is slightly different, but the requirements are the same (except the introduction and the last part of number 3):

 

My Responsibility

 

I will take this card to my Scout leader or someone designated by my leader and do the following:

 

1) Read and understand woods tools use and safety rules from the Boy Scout Handbook.

2) Demonstrate proper handling, care, and use of the pocket knife, ax, and saw.

3) Use the knife, ax, and saw as tools, not playthings. Use them only when you are willing to give them your full attention.

4) Respect all safety rules to protect others.

5) Respect property. Cut living and dead trees only with permission and with good reason.

6) Subscribe to the Outdoor Code.

 

The BSA issues a patch with a saw, knife and axe with the words of TOTIN' CHIP on it with a Fleur de lis. It is shaped like a pocket flap. Some other councils issue their own pocket flaps for totin' chip. Local councils may approve patches for wear. The OA is very sensitive to insignia other than their own lodge flaps going on the right pocket flap (for obvious reasons). The insignia guide does not state specifically that something may not be worn on the right pocket flap or conversely about wearing something on the flap.

 

Now, what to do if a Scout has earned the Totin' Chip card but violates a rule? As Scoutmaster, I reserve the right to take away his Totin' "rights" if he fails in his responsibility. I don't do this by cutting corners (more of a warning) or removing his card. I do it by verbal means alone. I also give the Scout the opportunity to "re-earn" his rights.

[FScouter]

The national council specifies patch position. A local council may design and approve a patch for wear, such as a camporee patch, but cannot autorhorize it to be worn on the uniform other than in the temporary location on the right pocket.

 

The Insignia Guide specifies where patches should be positioned. It does not list all the places where patches should not be positioned. There is no wording that says "no patches except the OA flap shall be placed on pocket flap", just as there is no wording that says patches may not be place upside down on the back of the collar.

 

Patches may be positioned only as specified in the Guide, and there is nothing in the Guide that says the toin' chip patch may be placed on a pocket flap.