Two-hour BOR

[acco40]

What do you consider the start and end time for a BOR? In our troop, a Scout is called in (we try to have the younger ones escorted in by the SPL who "presents" the Scout to the board). The Scout is interviewed, excused, deliberations take place, Scout is invited back in and is either passed or if not, given specific written instructions on what he needsto do to pass. The interview process itself rarely goes over 15 minutes but the overall BOR may take up to an hour (rarely).

 

After the first episode, I complained to the CC. And after I yelled at the advancement chair at a troop committee meeting, he responded with a long email about how he was the best judge of how long a board should take, and he wasn't going to let the clock decide how long it would take the board to make a decision. Maybe yelling at teh Advancement Chair isn't the best approach?

 

Also, before I would ask the Scout how the BOR went, if I had serious concerns, I'd politely ask the AC how the BOR went - in a non-threatening manner.

 

As SM, you don't pick and choose Committee members. If you have a beef with a MC individual, talk to the CC. If it can't be resolved there, bring in the UC and possibly the COR.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[packsaddle]

We have so many of them that we couldn't, under most circumstances, ever have one that long. In this unit the BOR actually 'reviews' what the boy did and gets his take on it as well. On most of the occasions, the adults already know the boy well and it doesn't take much time - although I couldn't give a typical length, certainly less than 30 minutes for most of the BORs even for high rank. The exceptions are usually associated with the boy and the adults digressing into a pleasant bull session (the board decision is usually established before this, however) and then only the last boy in line. Two hours would be very difficult to justify.

 

Edited part: This trick sometimes works to limit the length of an academic defense - have an abundant supply of fresh coffee and chips. Maybe that will help 'move' things along. (This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[frankj]

I am the advancement coordinator for our troop. I can't imagine a BOR taking that long. We had one for Eagle that ran about 90 minutes, but that was because the candidate was giving very thoughtful and somewhat lengthy answers. He was someone who would actually THINK before he spoke, so there were some long silent pauses. I think the AC should be a moderator-type at a BOR, it sounds like your AC perceives himself or herself as "Lord High Executioner!"

 

Having sat through many job interviews (as one doing part of the interview) I suggest a structured approach. There are certain suggested questions for the various ranks. Divide these up amongst the interviewers. Each interviewer should be responsible for asking the questions assigned and follow ups if needed. Then, when one interviewer has finished his set of questions, it is the next one's turn. This keeps it moving. Of course, any interviewer can jump in with a question to clarify, but no single interviewer dominates the BOR.

 

If you ask a candidate the same question in a few different ways, and they respond pretty much the same way each time -- you might as well move on. As an interviewer, by asking the question a few different ways, you are assuring yourself that they understand what it is you are asking. If they show a consistency in their answers, they are telling you they understand the question and are giving you their answer. If it is not the "right" answer, so far as as the interviewer is concerned, more questions will not change things. Move on to a new topic.

 

It takes a little bit of planning in advance and the AC will have to give up some control. In my view, the AC acts as sort of an auditor and recordkeeper, not as judge and jury. Discuss this at a committee meeting. Get it on the agenda and put it out in advance so all who attend know that this is an item to be resolved within the troop. I hope this helps.

 

 

[Greying Beaver]

I concur that a 2-hour BoR is out of line, way out of line. Let me throw in that At AC, I have found that using the Life BoR as a "dress rehersal" for the Eagle BoR has several advantages. Chief of which is that the youngster knows what is expected at his Eagle BoR which has an encourageing aspect to it. I also sit on Eagle BoR's for our troop (save for my son's which took almost 2 hours because he wouldn't shut up!) whcich run around 45 minutes to just under an hour.

[Hunt]

Let me also add that something is seriously wrong if boys are "failing" BORs with any frequency. If this is happening more than once in a blue moon, it is almost a sure sign that the BORs are improperly retesting scouts. The only time I have seen a BOR "fail" a scout was when he hadn't actually done all the requirements for a lower rank, was confused about it, and it somehow slipped past the SM. Even then, he didn't really "fail"--we just pointed out that he wasn't really ready for the BOR yet. His response: "Oh. OK."

We've had a few BORs drag on a while (never two hours) but that was AFTER it was obvious to everyone that the boy was going to succeed, and various adults were dispensing sage advice and reminiscing. Some of it may have bored the boys, but it wasn't oppressive.

I don't know--maybe it's different in a very large troop, where the adults on the BOR may not know the boy that well, or at all.

[ASM7]

Make sure they are not retesting the Scout. It's not their job

[Juggler]

>>What do you consider the start and end time for a BOR?

 

I think a BoR starts when the scout walks into the room and greets the board. The review ends when the scout walks out of the room with the knowledge that he has advanced (or not).

 

Between those times, we have a young man who is really at the mercy of a group of adults who can criticize any aspect of the scout's behavior. And for some of these boys and young men, there may not be an adult in the room who is very sympathetic to them. Maybe only one or two has seen them on campouts and in service projects.

 

Our COR is a former SM of our troop. I asked him how he felt about two-hour BoRs, and he said it was probably Ok for Star/Life ranks. I feel, as do all of you, that two hours is way out of line.

 

What's my next step? Council?

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Juggler)

[Lynda J]

I would ask to talk to the District Advancement Chairperson. And if a BOR is taking 2 hours, as SM I would want to know what was being done in the meeting. The board is not to retest a scout and there are only so many questions that they can ask.

Monday night we had two BORs one for 2nd Class and one for Star. Both didn't take more than an hour together.

How long has this person been AC? And what trainings have they taken?

I have at times on BORs (before I was ASM) after the Scout was introduced tossed him a rope and said

"tie a square knot". EVeryone of them has laughed.

It isn't used as a test but an ice breaker.

[drakmund]

My suggestion, bring it up to the full Committee and have the Committee setup the guidelines for the boards. Define the process, what is expected of the scout at each rank, maybe a list of sample questions for each rank, max/min length of time for a board. When I was put in-charge of the boards for my troop the first thing I did was put in place the guidelines with the support of the committee. Having them makes sure the boards are fair, there is documentation for what is acceptable and not, and it makes for a good training tool for new Board of Review members to maintain consistancy.