Two-hour BOR

[Juggler]

I few months ago I started a thread because my son (I am a SM) had a two-hour board, which he failed.

 

Well, another scout in my troop had a two-hour board last week. The scout passed, but the father of the scout asked me the other night what was going on with the Advancement Chair.

 

After the first episode, I complained to the CC. And after I yelled at the advancement chair at a troop committee meeting, he responded with a long email about how he was the best judge of how long a board should take, and he wasn't going to let the clock decide how long it would take the board to make a decision.

 

In my opinion, the CC is unlikely to do anything about this. Do I have any other alternatives?

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Juggler,

 

Wow, 2 hours. And I assume it wasn't an Eagle BOR? What rank was it for?

 

Our AC sometimes goes a little overboard as well, but the BORs are not near that long. Ours usually runs like this:

 

Tenderfoot - approx. 10 min

2nd Class - approx. 15 min

1st Class - approx. 15-20 min

Star - approx 20-30 min

Life - approx 30-40 min

 

We had one Life BOR that lasted an hour, and we all thought that was really long. Turns out they were having issues getting the scout to commit to an answer (he was being wishy-washy, to use the technical term). Knowing the scout, I can imagine that was the case. They felt a Life candidate should be a little more "grounded". I think the young man learned a lot about dealing with people - especially adults. That people respect you for having an opinion much more than if they think you are just trying to give you the "right" answer. I think he'll now be much more prepared for his Eagle BOR.

 

 

As for your case, you have got to get the troop committee to handle this. If the CC won't do it, get the committee members to take a stand. If enough parents express an outrage, then he'll probably step aside.

 

Good luck.

[Juggler]

This most recent BoR was for Star rank. The scout is a really solid citizen. He's a little bit of a know-it-all, and is big for his age. But he knows his stuff, does all the service projects, and is always willing to work with younger scouts.

 

There was no question that he would pass. Although I wasn't in there, what I heard (2nd hand, of course) was that the scout was told, over and over again, that he had an attitude problem.

 

Another question - is it appropriate, for me as SM, to ask the scout about the board of review process, and whether he thought he was treated fairly?

[CalicoPenn]

>>Another question - is it appropriate, for me as SM, to ask the scout about the board of review process, and whether he thought he was treated fairly?

[Prairie_Scouter]

2 hours is WAY to long for any BOR. There's something wrong with the process is it's taking that long, IMO.

 

Also, a Scout shouldn't just "fail" a BOR. The Board has a responsibility to tell the Scout WHY he was not being passed on, suggest corrective action, and set up a follow-up meeting to re-assess.

[SueM]

It sounds to me like your AC is on a power trip and I think you need to have a talk with him! A 2 hour BoR is not only totally unnecessary but can be discouraging to the scouts! Is that what he wants?? Sure, standards should be set high..but they shouldn't be impossible to obtain!! JMO...

[SueM]

P.S....It's a BoR..not the Spanish Inquisition!

[OldGreyEagle]

From the BSA publication "Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures"

 

Jugs, consider this

 

"The review should take approximately fifteen minutes. At the conclusion of the review, the board should know whether a boy is qualified for the rank or Palm."

 

then this as well

 

"If the board decides that the Scout is not ready to advance, the candidate should be informed and told what he has not done satisfactorily. Most Scouts accept responsibility for not completing the requirements properly. The members of the board of review should specify what must be done to rework the candidate's weaknesses and schedule another board of review for him. A follow-up letter must be sent to a Scout who is turned down for rank advancement, confirming the agreements reached on the actions necessary for advancement. Should the Scout disagree with the decision, the appeal procedures should be explained to him."

 

Is this being done? The letter, the action plan and the appeal process?

[anarchist]

OGE is dead on here...though ours usually take 25-30 minutes...we do actively encourage several questions from the scout being reviewed(I find I learn as much by what questions are asked as I learn from asking questions)...

 

We have had a couple of Eagle boards recently that took nearly two hours...I was not present at one and out in the hall for the other(my son)...Turned out that in both cases the outcome was not in doubt...the board just couldn't get the scouts to "shut up". Both scouts answered questions with LONNNGGG responces.

 

Think you need to get the committee and the Scoutmaster corps together for a long chat (not yelling), maybe a big pot of decafe, and review what the BoRs are all about...lots of literature out "on the net" to print and hand out...I would think, if you make the meeting a larger grouping (rather than smaller)you stand a better chance of "turning" the AC and CC from... the "dark side"...(sorry, couldn't help myself).

Anarchist

[Eagledad]

>>Another question - is it appropriate, for me as SM, to ask the scout about the board of review process, and whether he thought he was treated fairly?

[Lynda J]

I am on both our Districts and Councils Advancement Committees and a 2 hr BOR is way out of line. I have sat on Eagles that took about 1 hr but any rank below that should not take more than 30 minutes. We removed a AC in our troop over his idea of BOR. He made the scout stand at attention for 1.5hrs and questioned him on every requirement for his rank. Made his tie all the knots, show how to do bandaging and the such. Then turned him down because he didn't agree with his answer on his belief in God.

This kid was crushed because he had worked so hard.

He has a couple of learning disabilities and getting to 1st Class was a real labor for him. The saddest thing is that he has made at attempt to work on Star.

BORs are not a test of a Scouts skills but a review of his knowledge and how he thinks he is doing in scouting.

[John-in-KC]

As a CC, I've held long (nearly and hour) BORs at Star and Life, but they are because I want to see what makes the young man tick.

 

A 2 hour BOR is simply unacceptable: At a bare minimum, the Advancement person is being disrespectful of the Scouts' time! At an extreme, the time alone pushes the G2SS rules on hazing (as an aside, the BOR mentioned by Lynda, IMNSHO, is hazing: I would not keep my SOLDIERS at attention for an hour and a half, let alone 11-15 year olds).

 

 

[EagleInKY]

>>Another question - is it appropriate, for me as SM, to ask the scout about the board of review process, and whether he thought he was treated fairly?

[jr56]

1. A 2 hour BOR is totally unacceptable.

2. As Scoutmaster you are permitted to inquire of the scout how he feels about it.

3. If the CC won't do anything about it, go to the COR. Take along a copy of the Boy Scout Advancement Policy Manual for documentation.

[evmori]

2 hour BOR for any rank is out of line. I have sat on many Eagle BOR's & they last at most

1 hour! This is totally unfair to the Scout.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

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