Retaining sails and dropping anchors

[CNYScouter]

I am curious on how to staff a unit without being forced to retain the kinds of folks who are anchors and not sails.

 

As an ASM I do not see how I can accomplish this especially with a SM and CC not willing to follow the program and a CO that is not willing to fullfill its shared responsability.

 

I am also curious about going about doing this when starting a new unit?

[Greying Beaver]

Here is a suggestion: Call your District Commissioner and explain your situation. One of the Unit Commissioners' jobs is to help with the removal of volunteer leaders. Not the prettiest of jobs to be sure. Ask that a UC be assigned to your unit. UC's are a great resource for unit leaders.

 

 

[Eamonn]

I think we have all heard that it's hard to fly like an Eagle when your down with the Turkeys.

Like almost everything we do in Scouting and in life, we lead by example. How we act and what we say has a way of reaching others and I believe comes back to us. I know that if I go around moaning and groaning, the people around me will respond with moans and groans. If I try and "sell" a new idea at work and tell the people that "They" say we have to do this and that I think it's a waste of time, the "Sale" becomes a real hard sale.

At times when we discussed units, people would say "Well 666, is always like that" or they never do such and such. I dismiss this way of thinking. A Scout unit is a living thing. As something that is alive it is always changing. Sadly it is either growing or dying. Dying units can be saved. Still the idea that a unit that has an ever changing roster will always do the same thing or act the same way, just doesn't make sense to me.

I like to have fun, I find that the best way to have fun is by having people around me that feel the same way. Sure we can attend a meeting and be on different sides of the fence but once it's over we can push our differences aside and go and have fun.

One reason for our success's as a District Committee is that the people on the committee are people that I as District Chairman selected. Needless to say I didn't select people that I couldn't work with. Not to say that the people I didn't select are bad people, but I wanted a "High Performance Team".

Given the choice between an expert who wasn't a team player and a team player who could be trained and would do a good job, there really wasn't a lot of thinking in the choice.

If you are in a unit that isn't following the program, then it isn't a Scout unit. If you want to belong to a Scout unit then you are not in the right place. Kinda being in Kansas when you want to be in Ohio.

This game really isn't that hard. If you see a need for something then you need to see what can be done to fill it.

You may never be able to change the hearts and souls of others, but you can change you.

I am accused of being a little too enthusiastic about Scouting and the BSA. I answer this with with "If your Scouting isn't contagious then maybe it's infected"

Eamonn.

[johndaigler]

Respectfully, I think a good first step would be to realize that the "sails and anchors" metaphor is really no better than the "sinking cruise ship" metaphor. We're dealing with people here, so the black/white approach isn't very effective or appropriate.

 

All these Scouters and potential volunteers have useful skills and energies, the trick is to get people fitted into the right roles. Someone who weighs down your fundraising efforts, may carry the load as an Advancement Chair. Someone who has terrible interpersonal skills may have great Outdoors skills. Someone who doesn't see the value in the uniform, may have great number crunching skills and be useful as a Unit Treasurer.

 

Everyone is trainable. Sure, not everyone wants to get training; or having taken it, judges it as a worthwhile experience, but they wouldn't be involved in Scouting at all unless they wanted to do some good for the boys.

 

Rather than judging potential leaders as "fit/unfit", I think your Unit would benefit the most if you found ways to help volunteers be the positive force they desire. If you can help them see their potential for usefulness, it will be easier to help them see how training and following the program will help them be even more useful and efficient with their efforts.

 

There are training classes to help you improve as a recruiter of adults, and some written BSA stuff, as well. Check them out. When you're actually doing the people part - spend more time listening than judging. People will tell you what they want out of their efforts - try to figure where in your Unit organization that individual will be most useful and happy. Build on their strengths and over time help round them out with training and alternative/additional responsibilities and experiences.

 

Good Luck,

 

jd

[evmori]

Excellent post, jd! The only thing I don;t agree with is the statement "but they wouldn't be involved in Scouting at all unless they wanted to do some good for the boys." Most adults (I'm in this group) are in this for the boys, but there are some adults out there that are in this for themselves, not the boys.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

To say that sails and anchors do not exist in anorganization is just being selective about what you see. Everyone ows just from these forums that there are people who like scouting and understand how it works and peopel wo do not like scouting and do not care how it works. We have all encountered these same people in our units and councils. If you are in a position of employing others or selecting employees you see it alll the time. Sails and anchors are all around us.

 

If you are in or considering a unit where the SM and CC do not care and do not follow scouting and you are not in a position to change or replace them the answer is simple, go elsewhere. If there is no place else to go...quit the scouting.

 

I do not mean this to be cruel. If everybody quit the unit would simply close down sooner than if you stayed and fewer boys would be harmed. I would rather there be 15 boys who wanted scouting and were sorry they could not have it, than have 15 boys who had a bad experience ina bad unit and regeretted ever joining.

 

Take your son and a scout handbook and teach him the skills and values on your own. the bottom line is not to be an Eaglle Scout, it never has been. The goal is to be a good person of strong character based on the values of the oath and law. If none of the COs near you understand that then leave them to wither and spend the time you were willing to share with them with you sons and his best friends. Invite another parent along on your outings, prtty soon others will com. One of them will belong to an organization that will charter you as a unit. it might take a year but you can make it happen by first serving the boys and delivering the promise of scouting.

 

Or if you want rather then have a poorly lead unit that you son is in linger a slow death, walk away and kill it now.

Then gather a team you trust walk back in to the CO and say "here is what happened". "If you really want to teach your organizations values and the valsue of scouting to the youth you serve we can help you do that, here is what we will do and here rae your responsibilities."

 

But you have the ability to make a positive difference if only by forcing the death of a unit that refuses to follow the program.

 

 

 

[Cubmaster Jerry]

"Dying units can be saved. Still the idea that a unit that has an ever changing roster will always do the same thing or act the same way, just doesn't make sense to me. "

 

Was this pulled from the stones of the Commandments?? I have said this before and I know others may disagree. Don't run from a dying program. It's all too easy to spot a dying program and not want to be a part of it, not asking yourself "What can I do to make it better?"

 

" We're dealing with people here, so the black/white approach isn't very effective or appropriate.

All these Scouters and potential volunteers have useful skills and energies, the trick is to get people fitted into the right roles"

 

Exactly. Work to their strengths! There is rarely a group of people, whether it is in the corporate or social arena that has all its members "in harmony". Human relations is so important when we are leaders.

 

 

[Eamonn]

JD,

I agree with the idea that most people can be trained and with the idea that there are positions within Scouting that are a good fit for most people.

For example Her That Must Be Obeyed, knows that she isn't good with kids. Working as a Den Leader or with young Scouts would send her over the edge.She did a wonderful job as a pack treasurer and has chaired the Council Recognition dinner for a number of years.

Nearly all the Scoutmasters in the District I serve are Wood Badge trained. Still some of them have decided that they know better than the BSA and have changed and altered the program. Some don't like the uniform, some don't like the Patrol method, some don't offer an outdoor program and sadly some have decided that they don't like very much that Scouting and the BSA has to offer. They know how this game should be played and have made the choice not to use the methods of Scouting. At times I have to wonder what it is they are offering? I know that they have come so far away from what Scouting should or ought to be that whatever it is they are offering isn't Scouting.

If a new Scoutmaster wants to make changes, he might be able to pull it off and given time will be able to sort things out. However if the rot has set in at the top, if at every turn the newbie hears "We don't do it that way" I really feel the best thing to do is get away, get out of there as fast as you can. Find a unit that is offering the program, or go about starting one.

Eamonn.

[Bob White]

But you know what Jerry, and this comes from almost 20 years of rescuing units, Bad leaders do not become good ones because of outside influences. They become good leaders ONLY if they make the internal decision to change. Usually that NEVER happens. The occasional time when it does is because something dramatic causes a change such as a CC insisting on it.

 

If you join a troop with a bad leader you don't have time to wait for the change to happen. If your son doesn't get good scouting he may leave, or worse yet he may stay and learn bad skills from a bad program.

 

If you aren't in a position to effect the change then got to someone who can an request them to make the change, if they refuse or even hesitate, then vote with your feet. Boys deserve a good scouting program not excuses as to why its bad. Good scouting is not hard, its easier than bad scouting. So there else no accepting a unit that chooses to do it wrong.

 

If you go to an existing troop and the unit leaders and CC are not trained, ask when they will be. If they don't already have a plan for getting trained, walk away. Let them know that when they have a plan to learn the program they can call you and see if you are available.

 

If they say , I don't need training because I am an Eagle scout, walk away. I had my appendix removed but I don't pretend to know how to remove them. Receiving the program and delivering the program are two completely different things.

 

If you are on the committee and the CC isn't trained let him or her know you will go with them and you can learn together otherwise you will not take the job. What good is it if you know what you are doing if the leader doesn't?

 

Stepping onto a leaking boat is a waste of time if you do not have the authority to plug the leak.

 

Let people willing to lead and be lead poorly have their own units. Go find, or begin, good ones. Believe me the bad ones will be gone long before you ever leave the program.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Cubmaster Jerry]

Back to working on retaining sails...

 

First, I will limit my group of "anchors" not to those who have a total disregard for the scouting program or are in it for self satisfaction. I would like to think that these are in the minority. I am labeling anchors as those who maybe don't drag a unit down but certainly don't contribute to the success of the Pack. This type of leader typically just holds den meetings and comes to Pack meetings. Not much else. His/her boys advance and as far as the CM can tell, the program is followed, but more involvement is desired. Keep in mind the following:

 

- Not everyone's 100% effort is the same

- Bringing in Donald Trump isn't really an option. As I said, the program is followed and boys advance. But we would like to light a spark under their butt.

- No, they aren't trained and getting them there usually proves to be difficult.

 

The question to relate this answer to is do we as the committee leadership (COR, CC, CM) strive to get 100% participation or just work with those who are willing and risk having the minority carry the load?

 

I have implemented a number of initiatives, many of which I have iterated in these boards in various places. In the spirit of keeping this short(er), I won't list them in this post now.

 

Your ideas?

 

Jerry

[Cubmaster Jerry]

"They become good leaders ONLY if they make the internal decision to change. Usually that NEVER happens."

 

I would very much agree. But hopefully if the unit is in total disarray, you can rally enough additional parents to force that change. Those at Council or District level get paid to right these sinking ships.

 

"Stepping onto a leaking boat is a waste of time if you do not have the authority to plug the leak."

 

But then do you just allow the boat to sink with all aboard or do you find someone who does know now to fix a leak? Maybe your specialty is driving the boat.

 

"If you join a troop with a bad leader you don't have time to wait for the change to happen."

 

And that is the one problem with my strong beliefs here.

 

Jerry

[Bob White]

Do you just let it sink?

 

Yes, you do Jerry. Because it's not your boat. It belongs to the CO and if the IH and the CR do not care if the boat is sinking than you should go find someone who cares about their boat and join them. You are not responsible for other peoples property if they are careless with it by THEIR own choice.

 

We lose too many scouts and too many good adults to bad units. Let's leave the bad units to their bad COs and their bad leaders and go make good new units, or make existing good units better.

 

Do not think that good parents rush in to save bad units. Thats not how people are wired. You can get lots of folks to come watch a train wreck, but nobody wants to be on the train!

 

As a commissioner working on life saving teams we had many successes.

Our strategy was this. We observed a couple unit meetings and a couple of committee meetings. We went to the DR and CC and said, "here are the people who are weakening the unit". (Sometimes it was the people we were meeting with). Then we would say "We can train you in the scouting methods that will solve your problem, if you and the others will commit to the training and the changes (or agree to replace them), then we will stay and offer our resources to help you until the unit is healthy again". "If you or they will not accept this offer, we will leave and make a contact list of all the scouts in the unit so that when your unit folds we can get them into a healthy unit. This is your unit, the choice is yours."

 

If they agreed we were always able to help them turn it around, if they refused we made sure every scout had the opportunity to get into a better program. So we rarely failed.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[FScouter]

"Those at Council or District level get paid to right these sinking ships."

I'd disagree. DE's get paid to guide and assist. If a unit is insistant to ingore help, the ship will surely sink.

[Cubmaster Jerry]

Ok, Bob. It is certainly apparent that we have differing philosophies. And I think we are quickly getting back to a discussion state that this post was spun from. Shall we move on?

 

So, referring to my other post in here (4 up from here), how do we create better sails?

 

Jerry

[sst3rd]

 

I had a "sail." He was a Webolos leader with his son's Pack, and in touring around to area Troops, brought himself and his son to our Troop about a year and a half a go(I'm the current SM). We talked as to what he was interested in supporting, and he wanted to be an ASM to work with the New Scout Patrol (with his son). This was fine by me, and he said that he had taken Scoutmaster training in his last year as a Webolos leader anticipating moving to a Troop. Things worked fine until last week at the meeting.

His son is working towards his Star, and all of a sudden Dad is pushing his son to see me for a Scoutmaster's Conference every week. With the Annual Planning meeting, a special camp out, and other stuff, I've delayed this Scout's SM Conference for a couple of weeks. Our next Court of Honor is in three weeks, plenty of time, but this Dad says he wants the Conference NOW, and we got in an argument. Thank goodness it was after the meeting, and only the CC was with us, and the Scout was inside the building, as we were outside. He raised his voice and said that he felt we were showing favoritism as another Scout got his Star "quickly," and his son is having to wait. Seriously, I had no idea he felt this way, and I was wondering why his wife had come to the meeting. He let me have it. He wasn't happy with a lot of things. I suggested he go to the Committee with his concerns. I've worked very hard for a long time, in recruiting folks for the Committee and ASM's. Most have taken training, and things are doing well. New Scouts from the neighborhood, as well as graduating Webolos, then all of a sudden this happens. He is smothering his son, and the Scout can't experience the program because of it. We talked with this Dad in the past about this, but after a short time, he starts jumping in with his son again.

 

Needless to say, this "sail" has become an "anchor." I'm waiting for the next meeting to see if they show up. I feel sorry for the Scout, because no matter where they go, the Scoutmaster and Scout determine when he is ready for his rank advancement, not the parent.

 

sst3rd