Demographics

[Its Me]

 

I read CNYscouters opinion that the local units performance is the biggest contributor to recruitment and growth. I think demographics are much more important even bigger than the individual unit's operations. Our unit has a weak CO which offers no visible support. So weak that the District Executive mentioned to me over the summer that he would like us to get a new CO. Our committee meetings are nonexistent. We meet as a committee once a year and occasionally communicate through an email. The Den leaders are left to fend for themselves. There is no training chair or other mentoring program in which to develop the Tiger and Wolf leaders. Our pack meetings resemble boring business meeting with little or no scout activities. Actually the pack meetings are more like church on Sunday with adults getting up there and talking endlessly about various subjects with an occasional scout strolling up to get an award after his name has been called out over the loud speaker.

 

All this and yet out pack is huge 100+ scouts. We have five Webelos dens and about four-five dens for every rank there after. Why do we have so many? The neighborhood! Upper middle class well educated professionals. The homes are new and the subdivisions are over flowing with kids. These parents are ambitious and have set goals for their children. Scouting is a check list item they want their kids to do, along with piano lessons and sports. Based on my observations, demographics is the single biggest factor that influences a packs success.

 

[SemperParatus]

"Based on my observations, demographics is the single biggest factor that influences a packs success."

 

Why is it that your pack should be considered a success? Because it is big?

 

If a competing pack with a fun and exciting program were started in your neighborhood tomorrow, I would expect your unit would hear a giant sucking sound as kids/families bolted out the door.

 

[Prairie_Scouter]

I can't imagine, really, how it is that you're able to sustain that size a pack with those conditions. Nonetheless, I don't think that this is really a CO problem. The fact that they are ineffective doesn't help, but I think you'll find that most CO's don't participate all that much (now, that's a guess based on my local experience, but I don't find people refuting it when I check around). My guess is that you have a weak CC and CM, possibly untrained. At the very least, unimaginative. How can you function with one committee meeting a year? Pack meetings are supposed to be FUN! And it's the responsibility of the CM to make them fun. Even if they just open the planning guides and used them word for word, your meetings would be more fun. Just sounds to me like you've got pretty weak leadership within the unit.

 

Demographics can help or hurt. It's hard to be successful if there's no kids around to entice into Scouting. If you have lots, that certainly helps, but by no means guarantees success. Are there any other packs around? Maybe they have so many kids because there's no alternatives available. On the other hand, if they've sustained those kinds of numbers for several years, they must be doing something right.

[Its Me]

I did not say my pack was a success. I only said it was huge. The idea that I am putting forth is that area demographic plays a bigger part in the size of the pack than the performance of its leadership. That is my emperical experience. The pack we were in as tigers had really fun pack meetings, with dens doing skits and telling what they did the previous month. Our first pack had a well oiled committee as well. But it was based out of an older neighborhood, less wealthly and a smaller school pupil count.

 

Parents who want their kids to have the Scouting experience will send their kids to an underperforming pack. Parents who are less concerned about their child getting the scouting experience will not send their kids even to an over-achieving pack. Actions taken by the unit leadeship, CO, District and Council take a backseat to demographics.

 

 

 

 

[scouter-mom]

Location, location, location.

 

It's gotta help in the pool for prospective membership.

 

In regards to the more affluent families being able to have their kids in activities, I've observed it in our town. On the affluent side of town, the middle school band is larger with student owned new instruments.

 

On the far less affluent side of town, the middle school band is smaller (campus population is pretty even, if anything there are more students at the less affluent side) with fewer student owned instruments. Both schools have excellent band directors.

 

But, in a nearby town, I've also witnessed the "if you build it, they will come" phenomena with a troop. When a terrific program was built up, the scouts came.

 

A population pool to pull from is often helpful, but a great program is also needed.

[CNYScouter]

Has the Pack been 100+ kids consistantly or has it got ths big over the last few years

The pack you are sounds like the one we were in a few years ago. Same demographics, Upper middle class well educated professionals. No committee meetings. CM, ACM and CC did it all and did not want any help.

Didn't matter what the Pack meetings were like the Pack kept growing. Why? Becuase Cub Scouts happen to the "hot" trend amoung the parents and they had to be in. Also I have found that if your Den Meetings are fun you can often get away with so-so Pack meetings.

So what happen a couple of years later. Kids were bored so they didn't want to come. The 3 Pack Leaders left and Den meetings became boring. Pack meeting often had 100% attendance but Den meetings became boring or non-exisitant. Pack ended up folding last year.

Our community has a population of 25k, 1 Troop with 35 kids.

I know a Troop 30 miles north of here in a coumminity of 9K. Lower income, blue collar that has 80 kids in it. This troop does no recruiting as it draws kids from all the surrounding communities.

It was pointed out to me as one of the top programs in our council. Theres not a single unit in our district that comes close to this unit.

 

Demographics play into it with some degree, but sorry, I have to disagree and still maintain that the quality of a unit has more to do the declining or growing of the Scouting population than any other factor.

 

[Bob White]

Rarely does someone die suddenly of an illness without symptoms. Usually as an illness begins symptoms are detectable, the patient weakens and without treatment dies.

 

Sometimes the process is short sometimes long, either way the patient is ill and getting worse unless treated.

 

That's your pack.

 

The leaders cannot be short-sighted and say "we see this, this, and this are wrong, but look we have 100+ boys!". Eventually, perhaps quickly, perhaps slowly, the pack will die from the problems you already know of.

[Greying Beaver]

Program will be a greater influence than anything else in having a successful unit, period. BSA National did some numbercrunching a few years ago that, among other things, led to the First Class Emphasis program. He did relate some other findings, but I think that I'll keep those close to the vest for now.

 

Semper Paritus is right. Another pack starts up down the street with a activity-filled, fun program, and you would hear that loud sucking sound.

 

IT's Me, either you are part of the solution or you are part of the problem. Get other parents who have the time, and as a group go get trained - now! Then put your training to good use in the pack, preferably at the pack level.

[Its Me]

Bob, {shudder} I agree with you. The CM and CC (who are husband and wife) look around at the packed house and think they delivering a Jim-Dandy of a program. But the steady flow of motivated parents masks what is at best an average progam and at worst a minimalist approach to deleviring the program.

 

 

[Its Me]

I am niether part of the problem nor part of the solution. I work hard to deliver the program I am responsible for which is a Webelos I program to a group of 9 year old boys. I strive to make every den meeting fun and eductional. Within the Pack I plan the yearly campout. Last year I introduced planned activites at the pack campout, which by the way was a new concept for our pack. The tight grip the CC and the CM have on the pack make it difficult to change course without a lot of drama. And don't forget there are no committe meetings to offer suggestions and discuss changes. Besides with such large numbers there are no obvious signs that the pack needs a change. The demographics are such that, the population drives that their boys will have the scouting experience.

 

 

[CNYScouter]

I have to say that money and education really have nothing to do with running a successful program.

Our district runs the gambit from low-income inner-city areas to suburban upper class very wealthy areas to somewhat rural farming communities. I know units, both packs and troops, from low-income areas that are large and doing very well. I also know units from these same areas that are ready to fold. The same is true of the wealthy areas. The difference is the quality of the program.

 

Its Me I commend you for concentrating your efforts on the boys. This is what I ended up having to do and trying to plan good, fun den meetings to hold the boys interests.

 

Having gone through this same type of situation be very concerned when its time for these two to leave. Because they have doing all the work in planning and running the pack events youll have no one familiar or ready to take over.

 

When the 3 people left our pack, because they handled everything, no one was willing to step forward as they had either pissed people off because they didnt want any others suggestions or people were so used to having it done for them they werent willing to come forward and help.

 

Also, be very concerned if they are handling the money for the pack. We really ran into problems that after 6 years of selling no less than $10K in popcorn each year, when they left us the pack only had $28 in the packs account and $300 in unpaid bills. Didnt steal the money, just spent it. It was all accounted for in the bank records, it was just gone. As one of them handled the money, we never saw a pack balance sheet and we always told everything was OK.

 

 

[Greying Beaver]

Okay, It's Me, if you are doing your job at the den level and that the CM and CC are married, there is little that you can do except what you are doing. So don't quit. CNY brings up a good point - the money. Demand to see the books. I repeat, demand to see the books. Let you Unit Commisioner know what is and is not going on. No Unit Commissioner? Call your district executive and tell him/her that your pack needs one in a hurry. Don't take "No" for an answer from anybody on that point. When the current CC and CM leave, big problems could suddenly appear. The kind that could make the newspaper. Be Prepared.

 

At the same time, be looking for a good troop for your webelos to join. I'll bet that you're already doing that, though.