BSA franchises

[SemperParatus]

BW,

 

YPT does not cover the nuances of the BSA's Congressional charter, which is the subject of the recent discussion. If that is what you are teaching in YPT courses then I would seriously suggest you refresh yourself on the training content. The Congressional Charter states that the BSA's purpose is "to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves...". The Congressional Charter does not mandate the use of the CO concept, that idea is a pure creation of your own imagination. The CO concept is BSA procedure, not a requirement of the BSA's federal charter.

 

[evmori]

Back to semantics!

 

I thought it was the Congressional Charter not the National or Federal Charter! Let's get it right!

 

The wording "work through local community organizations" means the BSA can't own units? I don't read it that way. The BSA could still own units & work through local community organizations.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

"The federal charter requires that the BSA work through local community organizations."

 

Perhaps the bylaws require this, but the charter doesn't. Bob, I did read the link you provided, and I also read the actual Congressional Charter. Did you? This is not a matter of training, but a matter of reading comprehension. The Congressional Charter simply does not require the CO method of operation--at most it calls for "cooperation" with other organizations. Furthermore, even if BSA must use COs, there is nothing to prevent BSA from exerting far more control over the selection of leaders or other elements of the program than it does now--it simply could make those things prerequisites to getting a charter. What BSA does, what it must do, and what it should do are three different things.

 

As far as CO selection of leaders, it is certainly true that BSA materials urge COs to choose them carefully. What steps does BSA take to ensure that this is done, aside from the check for a criminal record? Does BSA require that IHs and CORs receive training before the charter is granted? I take it that BSA does not contact the references on the adult membership application--does it do any quality control to ensure that COs do this? Perhaps the procedures in place (criminal background check, youth protection training and rules)are enough to protect BSA from liability, but the question under discussion is whether BSA should do more to ensure the quality, skills, and character of unit leaders. Frankly, it surprises me that someone who thinks leader quality is so important wouldn't feel strongly that BSA should do more. There are some COs that are never going to be able to do a good job at this--think of a PTA, where the CO leadership changes every year, for example.

[Bob White]

Ed Hunt,

PLEASE return to basic trainingg, or pick up the Charter Organization Representative pamphlet, or even talk to a professional, but yes the agreement with congress is that the BSA deliver the program through community organizationsa just as every resource I mentioned explains, your constant refusal to accept that the BSA resources communicate the BSA program, and not your personal opinion, continues to awe me.

 

This is not new information, this has been in basic training for at least the 30 years that I know of and I am sure probably all the way back to 1916 when it was instituted.(This message has been edited by Bob White) (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[evmori]

The Scout Promise is:

 

On My Honour, I promise that I will do my best

To do my duty to God and to the Queen,

To help other people

And to keep the Scout Law

 

The Scout Oath is:

 

On my honor I will do my best

To do my duty to God and my country

and to obey the Scout Law;

To help other people at all times;

To keep myself physically strong,

mentally awake, and morally straight.

 

Similar yet different. In the BSA we don't do duty to the Queen. And we are talking about the BSA, correct?

 

K , Bob.

 

And nowhere in the Congressional Carter does it state the BSA can't own units. It might be in the BSA bylaws, but it isn't in the Congressional Charter. Delivering the program through community organizations doesn't prevent the BSA from owning units. Hunt is correct! This has noting to do with training, it's all about reading comprehension AKA understanding of the written word.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10 (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Bob White]

Ed (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Hunt]

Let me put this plainly. I am talking about what the Congressional Charter in the U.S. Code says. That is a federal statute, and its words are what counts. Not what Bob thinks, not even what BSA training says (although I challenge Bob to identify anything from BSA that says it is required by the Congressional Charter to use COs). And the clear wording of the statute makes it clear that BSA is not restricted to chartering units through other organizations. The charter gives BSA broad powers--including the power to modify its bylaws--and specifies certain limitations and restrictions on its powers. Those limitations do not include any limitation on whether BSA can operate its own units. Now, certainly this is the way BSA DOES operate, as its publications and training explain. However, as I thought I had explained pretty clearly, how BSA DOES operate and how it is REQUIRED to operate are not necessarily the same, and in this case they aren't the same. There may be many good reasons BSA has chosen to operate through charter organizations, but it simply isn't true that it is required to do so by the Congressional Charter. (By the way, I've had plenty of training in how to read and interpret statutes--but I suggest that anybody could read the statute for themselves and understand what I'm saying.)

[Bob White]

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[CNYScouter]

If the BSA owns the program and charters this program to contracted partners, the Charter Organizations, why cant the BSA change the program to require its leaders to have a minimum amount of training before becoming a leader?

 

The BSA has changed the requirements for a Scout to become Eagle many times in its history.

I can remember bustin my butt to finish my Eagle requirements back in 1972 or 1973 before the number of Merit badges increased from 21 to 24, so why cant it do this for leader requirements?

 

 

[SWScouter]

Well, this thread started out fairly interesting but it has degraded to being a bunch of drivel. Perhaps we all can get back on topic or perhaps a moderator can lock this thread.

[Bob White]

Please do not try to mix progarm with membership thay are two different issues.

 

Rather tha have the CO sign up a leader and then the BSA drop them for not getting trained, why not just have the COs fulfill their accepted responsibility and only select leaders who are willing to learn and deliver the BSA program.

 

Why can't local units and volunteers take responsibility for their choices as they agree to do each year when they recharter? If a leader doesn't make a personal committment up front to get trained and follow the program then don't sign them up in the first place.

[evmori]

Bob,

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[FScouter]

Ed and Bob:

Your off-topic and un-Scoutlike comments about each other are not welcome on these forums. I have deleted the most offensive portions of your recent posts. Surely you can both do better henceforth.

FScouter

moderator (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[evmori]

Some of us are still waiting on an answer to "Where in the Congressional Charter does it state the BSA can't own units?"

Ed, It's abundantly clear you are not interested in an answer and the purpose of your post is to antagonize. Give it a rest.

FScouter

moderator (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[CNYScouter]

Perhaps I should have started this thread under training but since I started this thread Ill try to get it back on topic:

 

When I see units that have 80+ kids with perpetually strong leaders and programs I think the BSA needs to find a way to better use these model units to increase the quality of the Scouting program.

 

I see units that year after year that keep their numbers up and consistently draw kids into the unit and leader after leader understands the program.

 

I also see units that for years have been mediocre and never really develop into a strong program. I see even with COs selecting leaders and after attending training, many do just not understand how to apply the Scouting program.

 

Perhaps we need to include as part of SM training spending time with these highly successful units to see how they do things.

As we all know, leadership skills can be learned. I think that this way will do a better job to spread the knowledge on running a successful Scoutng Program

 

Im thinking we can start small.

Identify a struggling unit or before starting a new unit, have the SM and CC (voluntarily) work with the successful unit to learn how to run a successful program.

I did this and even after spending only one afternoon with a successful unit and a SM that really understood the scouting program, I had real insight on how to run a good scouting program and how to use passive leadership to run a troop.

 

If every new SM, as part of training, were to spend a few months with successful units like this, I really feel that the quality of the scouting program in units would take off and our numbers would start growing again.

 

I myself have been trying to present a good, exciting and fun scouting program but seem to meet resistance wherever I turn. I have been dealing with adult leaders who are not willing to put the time into the program (and also not willing to step down, ling term leader who want to do things there way or else or other adults who just decide they dont like part of the BSA program so they dont use it and are reluctant to try anything else.

 

I just talked with my DE about the lack of quality units in our district. Our district does not even have a SM with Wood badge training. I talked with him about units in our district that really understood the patrol method and are a boy run troop. He could only point me to one unit, 20 miles away, that he thought did a good job with the Scouting program.

 

I have been looking into starting a new troop in my area. But, with the drastic decrease of cub scouts in our area this I have not gotten a good deal of support for this either (unless I am willing to go into the inner-city gang infested areas) as currently there are more Boy Scouts than Cub Scouts and I dont see how our district can support another troop.

 

I hate to be all doom and gloom and some of you maybe in areas where there is a strong scouting program and dont see the need to do something.

However, if you are in area like mine and are seeing scouting dieing a slow death due to poor quality units and nothing being done, you have to start thinking something needs to be done to reverse this trend.