Is this a Boy Run Troop?

[Eagle76]

Hi all. I would appreciate the opinions of the knowledgeable and experienced members of this forum. I have learned much from you in my recent browsing.

 

Here's the situation: My son bridged into our troop one year ago. In December, a new SM took over. This spring I went through training, and became an ASM in June. During this past year, all campouts have been "car camping", and most campouts have no planned activities. Recently, at the first PLC meeting I attended, there was some discussion of the schedule for the coming year. When it was suggested that we add variety to our camping by backpacking in short distances, the response of the boys was very cool. A little later, one of the PL's said, "When we go on campouts, we don't want to DO stuff, like hiking. We just want to hang out with our friends." There are adults on the troop committee who will support this position, saying "If that's what the boys vote to do, then that's fine, because this is a Boy Run Troop."

 

My question is, is this The Way it Should Be? If not, what suggestions do you have for how I might bring about change?

Thanks in advance.

[SemperParatus]

If left to their own devices, sometimes boys can sometimes be lazy. Just hanging out with friends for a weekend and 'doing nothing' can sometimes be an attractive option. Doing it on every trip would likely become boring for many boys and you can probably see that evidenced in trip participation levels and scout retention.

 

It sounds like this group may need some motivation and ideas, which can certainly be provided by the adults in a boy-run troop. At the next PLC meeting, challenge them to come up with at least a dozen new trip ideas of things they think could be cool and that the troop has not done before (at least in recent memory). I would find it hard to believe that whitewater rafting, caving, rock climbing, windsailing, waterskiing, skiing, cycling, tubing, shooting guns, sea kayaking, etc. would not make it on the list and be appealing to many. If they have trouble, start the ball rolling for them. Have them think about cool places they went on family vacations that they think others might like to experience. Maybe print out some calendars of other troops in the area (or country) to show them what they may be missing.

[EagleInKY]

Semper nailed it pretty good (man that guy's good).

 

I would start with your SPL. Explain to him the need to add variety so boys won't lose interest. On that note, have you lost very many scouts? If so, do you know why? It could be that you're losing scouts because other troops offer a more exciting program.

 

If it's the work that scares them, start with some pre-packaged ideas. Around here there is a place that does cave camping. Everything is done for you. In WV, Ace Whitewater provides a whole mess of turn-key activities. They'll even feed you if you want. Several state parks have programs where your guys can do some advancement work. How about a low-ropes course? This is what we did with our guys. When they got a taste of adventure, they started going nuts for the stuff.

[Trevorum]

I also agree with Semper (always spot-on!).

 

In my experience, there is always a dynamic tension between achieving the goal of a boy led troop and avoiding the trap that Eagle76 describes. Moreover, it is not an issue that can be "solved" - rather it is an issue that continually re-emerges and needs attention "again", as the troop leadership changes, both youth and adult.

 

I never cease to be amazed how the troop is constantly re-inventing itself as faces come and go. I think the solution is for the current leaders to always ensure that the next crop of leaders recieves the appropriate training as soon as possible (I can just feel Bob White beaming at me).

[Eagle76]

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Several (fairly new) boys dropped out last September, but as we were just joining up, I don't know their reasons. I don't think they went to other, more active, troops, but rather dropped out of Scouting. I don't think Scout retention is a problem (yet), but trip participation has definitely been low, as a couple of you guessed. However, apparently I will have to work a little to get others to see the connection. The troop has done the same things and gone to the same places, year after year, and done nothing at those same places. I was very disappointed with the annual planning process, as there was no opportunity to propose or discuss new activities, and the same outings were put on the calendar again. I think I will have to challenge the PLC month by month, outing by outing, to come up with fun and exciting plans, or even to change to a new destination if the scheduled one has become old hat. And EagleInKY definitely has a point, the SPL needs to be on board.

 

Trevorum also makes a good point, that this will be a never-ending process. I think the troop has taken the "adult hands-off" approach too far, and has allowed the boys to be lazy and take the easy way out. Now we adults need to swing the pendulum the other way a little, and raise the expectations, so that we have a strong Scouting program.

[NeilLup]

Boy run Troop is not an excuse for Liberty Hall.

 

An analogy that I sometimes use in training is that a boy run Troop can be somewhat like a railroad. The boys get to run the trains, decide how fast the trains will run and when the trains will stop. But the rails are already laid out, so the path that the trains will take is decided.

 

Early in a Troop or else when the senior boys have left and there is a new, younger crop of youth leaders, it may be that the boys only get to blow the whistle on the train. As they learn more about Scouting and its challenges, they get to take more responsibility.

 

Has your SM been to training? Does he or she have any experience with other, more active units? Have any of your older boys been to National Youth Leader Training in your council, or its earlier version National Junior Leader Training? Have you had a Troop Youth Leader Training?

 

Giving boys total responsibility can be an error, particularly if there is a culture of laziness on the part of the boys and their parents. It would be a little like having a family tell their kids "We can go anywhere you would like for your vacation, where would you like to go?" and permitting the kids to say "Let's go to McDonald's down the street."

 

You may need to challenge some of the boys. And you may need to push the matter, saying "I think that a more adventurous campout would be great. I will take any boys that want to go (you need to make sure there are other adults ready to go too.) Who wants to go with me? Let's sign up."

[Cubmaster Jerry]

I had a discussion with my 13-yr old just the other day about branching out his activities, thinking outside "the box" when combating his boredom, and trying new things. Even in a Boy-led troop, the boys need guidance from leaders who are trained and aware of the Program.

 

They don't know what they are missing. They have to first be introduced to it and then who knows what interests will be sparked.

[SWScouter]

That is not what a boy led troop is. Planning campouts that are all "car camping" with no planned activities is not what scouting is about and it certainly doesn't take much leadership.

 

If you can, take a look at the Scoutmaster's Handbook. Pay particular attention to the sections on boy lead troops, project planning, and training boys. Those chapters should make it painfully obvious that that is not what is meant by a boy lead troop.

 

SWScouter(This message has been edited by SWScouter)

[EagleInKY]

Just adding to the thoughts... the SM can play a big role in setting goals out for the kids. Our guys had a tendancy to "think small" in their annual planning. Of course, being a new troop of young scouts, who could blame them. I challenged them to come up with one item for the year that (1) most of the boys had never done, (2) was affordable, and (3) was exciting. They came up with whitewater, and it was a great trip.

 

Another goal I gave them was to "shake up" the program from the previous year. Think of new places to go, or go back and visit a place they haven't been to in a few years. I didn't give them a hard & fast number, but you could encourage them to change up at least 1/2 of the outings.

 

Just a couple of more cents worth. I hope it helps.

[acco40]

There is a fine line between "boy led" and "boy led into the ground." As volunteers, we have signed up to deliver the Scouting promise. It is our job to mentor and teach our youth to become leaders and make sure that promise is upheld.

 

[Greying Beaver]

Oh, this is a boy-run troop alright, but not according to the definition we understand. There are those times when the adult leaders can stand back and let the boys run the program. And there are those times when the adults need to be more active in the planning and running of the troop . . . until the program "gets back on track" and running like its supposed to be. Your situation sounds like it's time for the latter. Ask yourself and the Troop Committee some hard questions like Who is and is not advancing?, When was the last Court of Honor and what ranks were given to which boys?, How did the patrols do at the last camporee?, Did we go to the last camporee?, If not, why not?

 

The purpose of the BSA is to help boys become good citizens (boiled down to its essence). The advancement program is there to assist in that, and it should not be ignored. And there is nothing wrong with the boys wanting to have a good time on campouts. Baden-Powell's reason for starting the program, "A game with a purpose", still applies. What you are looking for is that balance of "game" and "purpose".

 

Looks like its time to step a lot closer to the running of your program and get it started again. Get the TCC, the TC, SM, and ASM and parents on side about this. If you have adults teach skills to get the advancement program going again, do it. Then as soon as the boys begin to take over, you step back.

 

Good luck to you.

[scoutingagain]

I agree with Acco, Semper and others. Boy led does not mean adults abdicate their own leadership and guidance. Yes left to their own devices Boys may be somewhat lazy. However this sounds like it's a case of adult leadership that is just a lazy. Delivering the program, doing more than a few car camping trips to the same old places every year takes some effort on the part of both the boys and the adults.

 

While I'm a big supporter of the boy led concept, I also think that once in a while, it's OK for the adults to say, "Hey, what do you think about doing a ______________ (insert activity) trip. We've looked into this outfitter, campsite, trip and here's a proposed itinerary. We could do......" If you get at least two scouts to say they might be interested, plan the trip with their help. Go. Take pictures. Go with as many that want to come. Come back with tales of adventure, fun, etc. Then suggest another trip and let the boys do more of the planning. Pretty soon those that just want to hang out in a parking lot called a campsite will feel like their missing something and want to join in.

 

I think it's OK for an adult to help stretch their horizons. Heck, what if they said, "We decided all we're going to do at meetings is play video games and camp only where we can get a high speed computer connections so we can use the internet."

 

I have to wonder which group is being lazier, the boys who have not been shown an alternative to what their doing, or the adults, who should know better.

 

SA

 

 

[Miki101]

Actually GB,

 

In the spirit of accuracy, Baden-Powell never said "It's a game with a purpose." He said that "It's a game not a science." Most likely, the BSA National office under James West came up the the "game/purpose" quote.

 

I'm sure that Kudu would agree. He's a student of B-P misquotes.

[Bob White]

"Scouting is a game with a purpose"

 

Lord Baden-Powell

 

quoted from "Lessons from the Varsity of Life", 1933, and his "Aids to Scoutmastership", 1920.

 

[Miki101]

Thanks Bob,

 

Now, please provide page number for the quote "Scouting is a game with a purpose."