"Paper" Eagles - failures or not?

[isvirtual]

"what do you call a Scout that came through a program that did everything for him and was not really required to show responsibility or put any extra-effort into earning his Eagle award?"

 

I call him the unfortunate result of a poorly managed troop. This needs to be taken up with the CC and SM. It seems there are some practices that probably should be improved. It might be time to fix this or move on to a unit that better fits your needs. The boy is still an Eagle Scout and will be for life.

 

I understand your feeling the Eagle rank wasn't earned according to your standard but apparently it was earned according to the standards of the Boy Scouts of America. There were nearly 50 opportunities for adults to check this boys progress toward earning his Eagle. Regardless of the rigor of process, he still succeeded according to the terms of these adults.

 

In our district we have "Eagle Mill" troops that focus on advancement and create a lot of Eagle scouts. We have other troops that focus on the outdoor program and promote fewer Eagles. Boys (and their parents) switch from one to the other all the time. I've watched scouts start high school and become scarce in both of these types of troops. It is a function of today's society. This is one reason the BSA removed the time in grade requirements of the lower ranks.

 

Regardless, he's still as much an Eagle scout as Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, Steven Spielberg, H Ross Perot, and Walter Cronkite.

[Venividi]

Yes I have seen "Paper Eagles", and more often, scouts attempting to become Paper Eagles.

 

I think it involves issues with both the adult leadership and with the scouts themselves.

Scouts aren't stupid, and some of them whose focus is solely on the award will be able to game the troop adult leadership to get signoff with no/minimal effort in a leadership position and/or scout spirit, IF adult leadership is not trained and is unwilling/unable to hold such a scout accountable for just trying to slide by.

 

Adults that have low standards for advancement have let down any scout for which they approve rank advancement without the scout stretching and growing, where he finds out what he is truly capable of.

 

I think fixing the problem is a responsibility of the adult leadership, since they are the ones that approve advancement.

A major difficulty that needs to be overcome with fixing such a problem is troop parents/leaders/committee members that don't fully understand the program, that fear a scout may leave or be discouraged if held to a standard high enough to be a challenge for him, that underestimate the ability of the scouts to rise to higher expectations, that don't want to make waves or cause controversy, etc. And with the continued influx of new scout parents, this issue must constantly be recognized and addressed to keep everybody on the same page.

 

Again, scouts aren't stupid, and they recognize which scouts get rank advancements without, for example, being trustworthy enough to take their duties as PL/scribe/etc. seriously, or being loyal to their patrol members, etc.

[SR540Beaver]

If I never knew what a paper Eagle was, I do now. We had the poster boy for "paper Eagles" in our Jamboree troop. This boy was a 14 year old Life scout who was two MB's and a service project away from Eagle. He had no concept of boy led as he continually came to us adults to ask questions rather than to his PL or APL. We spent the whole time pointing him in the right direction. He was one of our worst violators of the buddy plan. He possessed NO scouting skills whatsoever. I had to help him cut a package of bacon open to keep him from losing a finger or two. I then had to show him how to seperate the strips of bacon. I then had to show him how to dispose of the bacon grease. He had no idea that bacon produced so much grease. I don't know, maybe his home troop eats cold cereal on every campout. These are just a few of a myriad of stories concerning this particular scout. He left us adults shaking our heads at every turn. If this boy actually makes Eagle, it will be mostly on paper.

[OldGreyEagle]

To get on topic (who me?) if the scout Beav talks about, makes Eagle, it will be a failure of his home troops program (the scouts, not Beav's)

[SR540Beaver]

OGE,

 

Thank you. I should have added that the failure in the case I gave would be on his home troop's part. We did our best as contingent leadership to politely remind him of his rank and what we expected out of him as an example to the lower rank and age boys. Oddly, we had several other boys from his home troop in our Jambo troop and they didn't have the same "issues" this boy had. That made me suspect that his issues stem mostly from being babied at home and his home troop does little to counter it.

[EagleInKY]

I gotta admit I struggle with this "paper Eagle" concept, too. Not that I don't use the term, because I do. I think it's like pornography, it's hard to define, but I know it when I see it.

 

Heck, from some of the definitions I've heard, I guess you could call me a paper Eagle. I earned most of my Merit Badges at Summer Camp, and I don't remember ever having a PLC meeting in the form we have today. But I know we were a boy-led troop to a great extent and I know I did the work for my skill awards and merit badges. I also know that I led my Eagle project with virtually no adult help. SO, even though I may have earned most my MBs at camp, I know that I'm not a "paper Eagle". Thus an example of the problem with hard definitions.

 

I think the fault - when there is blame to be placed - falls in one of two places (sometimes both). Sometimes the troop is running an Eagle Mill, with the primary goal being to place a large number of Eagles on the street. If you've been in scouting for long, you've probably seen them. I've had Webelos parents say to me "we're going to troop ### because we know johnny can earn his Eagle fast and move on". I kid you not, I've heard it several times.

 

The other fault often falls on the parents. While we're trying our best to run a boy-led troop, I still have parents that interfere, do the work for their sons, or flat out cover up for them. I just had a run-in the other night with a parent who was blaming me for an advancement decision their son made. (He chose not to serve in a POC even though he was told that it could hold up his advancement). I'm suspicious that the same parents have done MB work for their son to turn in to his counselors. I can't stop it, because I can't prove anything. If they fool the counselor, there's nothing I can do.

 

Anyway, I'm starting to spin off of the subject, I guess I'm a little peeved at them right now. But the fact is, sometimes a troop can run a great program, and parents can undo all the work you've done.

[NeilLup]

Beaver, if you really feel that strongly about this boy, you can write an unsolicited "letter of information" (I prefer that to "letter of non-recommendation") to his Eagle Scout Board of Review documenting your observations. For courtesy, kindness, etc. if I did that, I would copy the boy and his Scoutmaster so there were no surprises.

 

There are "paper" Eagles, just as there are "paper" college graduates, "paper" PhDs, "paper" athletes, "paper" military officers, "paper" clergymen, even "paper" Scoutmasters, etc. We have made holding the Eagle badge such a prize that people want the badge and don't appreciate that it is the journey to get the badge that creates the person.

 

But maybe the appropriate story here for those of us who are Scout leaders is the story of the boy and the many starfish on the shore of the ocean. "I made a difference to this one."

[SR540Beaver]

Neil,

 

Even though I spent 15 days with this boy, I don't feel like I know all the particulars in his case. He was quite an enigma. On the one hand, he seemed bright and intelligent at times. On the other hand, it didn't seem like his elevator went all the way to the top at times. He was so immature and niave at times that you got the impression he had over protective parents that cater to his every whim. He continually came to the adult leaders expecting us to take care of every little issue or problem he had. In a descrete visit with another boy from his home troop, he told me that the boy's dad (an Eagle) is active in the troop and cuts his son no slack and makes him do the work. By his actions and skills, you'd never know it. While seemingly intelligent, the boy didn't have a lick of common sense. The boy is rather chunky and has a tendency to get chaffed between his legs. His dad sent medicine to treat the problem....which the boy didn't use. He literally waddled around DC and Jambo in extreme pain. When I suggested that we take him to our sub-camp First Aid station, he was appalled at the idea of letting someone look "down there". As a 14 year old and a Life Scout, he should already know how to prevent and/or treat a problem he has a history of getting. The last night of Jambo, we slept on the ground under the dining flys since we had already taken the tents down and loaded them. He threw a tantrum because his pillow wasn't big enough for comfort. We never figured that one out. It was the same pillow he used on his cot in his tent for 10 days. Honestly, he took up a huge amount of the adults time and it was like looking after a Wolf or Bear Cub. Without actually knowing if this boy is "slow" or not, I would have reservations about writing a letter at Eagle time. There may be circumstances that we adults were not made aware of.

[SemperParatus]

If I received an unsolicited letter of nonrecommendation from someone I never heard of about an event that allegedly transpired some time ago, I would trash it immediately.

[seabear]

I have seem Eagles whom could not soar in the skys, that the basics of scouting principle where voided in their knowledge.

Yet these scouts are eagle , they wear the eagle rank , most don't stay as eagles after they leave the nest.

Did we fail these boys, in not presenting the program? What is the goal of Scouting here is it that rank of Eagle received, the number of merit badges earned, or is it more than that!

The term of "Paper Eagles" , "Eagle Mills" have been around for some time, it's nothing new in BSA. When there no program followed, that the principles are not taught, lessions not learn, we label the failures of others.

The term "Paper Leaders" sounds great.

The priorities of our youth changes as do ours, these should not lessen the accomplishments of either.

Awhile back,priorities change for many , they switch the uniform for another one. Those EAGLE Soar!

 

Knight of Dunamis

[greenSM]

If the Scout has NOT done the requirements for the badge has he earned his Eagle? True, it is the result of the adult leadership but, when the Scout knows that he has done virtually none of the requirements for his MB, his project, and possibly even his rank advancement is it fair for him to demand and expect the honor of Eagle Scout? When the "technical requirements" have not been met and the Scout cannot muster the "work and committment" to know and earn the MB is this still a "valid route?"

OK. I'll admit I'm venting a little. I have met a Paper Eagles who did Orienteering inside a classroom, Wilderness Survival without camping, Personal Management (a twelve week badge) in one hour, and made a single phone call for their 'blood drive' projects. He, his parents, and the BOR saw no problems with all of this.

Expecting the numbers driven Council to stop this trend is futile.

[madkins007]

Oddly enough, I am more irritated by the idea of 'Eagling out' than I am about 'paper Eagles'.

 

When my adult leaders complain about older Scouts or younger Eagles 'getting too busy' for Scouting with school, work and a budding social life, I get a little irked.

 

I had thought that we were trying to help these guys become 'men of good character', ready to go out and share what they learned with the world. It never occured to me that we were supposed to keep them in the meetings for the rest of their life.

 

Heck, I even wanted to contact employers and coaches (with the Scout's permission) to see if the Scout was a decent leader and good person for them and let that count as Scout Spirit for the folk who can't make all the meetings.