itsme Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 There is a group of Webelos II, who will be entering the 5th grade in September and will have completed the Arrow of Light requirements, whose parents want to move them up to Boy Scouts in September instead of waitng until the traditional February/March ceremony. One of my reservations on this is the maturity of these boys, I know some of the conversations the 14 year old boys had were shocking for my 11 year old. Another concern is there are about 10 boys who moved up in the spring and have not attempted winter camping and are going to need guidance and help from the older scouts, but if 5 more boys move up who have not experienced true Boy Scout camping at all it will be very stressful for these Scouts to take care of themselves, the boys who moved up last spring and brand new scouts. I do understand there are programs where the boys only do one year Webelos and get there Arrow of Lights, but I know these boys start a year later and therefore are more mature. As you can tell it is nothing personal, but I don't want these boys to move up and feel my hands are tied. Is there a legitimate way to decline these boys from coming into the troop so early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubScoutJo Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 When did the boys complete 4th grade? If it was May or June then they wouldn't have at least ONE Arrow of Light Requirement completed (unless they are all ten and a half years old): "Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge. " Maybe that will buy you a couple more months. Not sure what the rush was to finish Arrow of Light that quickly. Are they also finished with all 20 activity pins? Maybe they could be encouraged to earn more of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubScoutJo Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 When did the boys complete 4th grade? If it was May or June then they wouldn't have at least ONE Arrow of Light Requirement completed (unless they are all ten and a half years old): "Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge. " Maybe that will buy you a couple more months. Not sure what the rush was to finish Arrow of Light that quickly. Are they also finished with all 20 activity pins? Maybe they could be encouraged to earn more of those. Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubScoutJo Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 When did the boys complete 4th grade? If it was May or June then they wouldn't have at least ONE Arrow of Light Requirement completed (unless they are all ten and a half years old): "Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge. " Maybe that will buy you a couple more months. Not sure what the rush was to finish Arrow of Light that quickly. Are they also finished with all 20 activity pins? Maybe they could be encouraged to earn more of those. Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneHour Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Graduating Webelos in December is early already, but September? Huh? It's not possible. Here is the reason why. The first requirement for the Arrow of Light requires the Webelos to: "Be active in your Webelos den for at least 6 months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge." Not unless these boys graduated from 4th grade in March, then the earliest that they can complete this requirement is November, assuming a May graduation. There is a very slim chance that they could have satisfy this requirement by September. What is the hurry? Here is another question, will the local troop accept them? Here is the scouting requirements: "Meet age requirements: Be a boy who has completed the fifth grade and be at least 10 years old, or be 11 years old, or have earned the Arrow of Light Award and be at least 10 years old, and be under 18 years old." Either way, the answer is no ... not possible! Good luck, 1Hour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkins007 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Assuming they are over 10 years old, you just need to decide something- do you or don't you want them in the? If not, simply do not accept the application. You do not have to accept everyone's. Politely suggest a different troop, perhaps explaining that you are just not prepared for these guys at this time. If you do want them but are primarily concerned about winter camping safety, just set a policy that allows first-timers to go home instead of spending the night. Because of potentially dangerous temps and wind chills here (usually with little if any snow to help things) we have put this in place. We also have a series of pre-event meetings, such as the one they come to packed for a winter campout and we check the suitability of the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperParatus Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Welcome to the forum. Ditto to what madkins said. I think your post says it all "that the parents want to move them up". Has anybody asked the boys what they want to do? Based on my experience, most boys really enjoy their last year of cub scouts and being the 'big guys'. Moving early is sometimes a symptom of problems within the pack (either the pack is awful or the parents looking to get out are no longer wanted because of personal issues). You may want to speak with the Pack's leadership to determine what is going on here. I would suspect that the pack is either very sorry to see them leave early (and maybe will make efforts to keep them around)or very glad (in which case, you would want to understand what you may be in for). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneHour Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Semper hits the nail on the head. I find it surprising that the boys want to move up. My second son's den complete most of the AoL actvities pin requirements and are poised to graduate in December; however, the boys made the request to have a last go at our pinewood derby which occurs at the end of January! This was not the first time. Each year the same responses. For 9 and 10 years old, 6 months of maturity is very pronounced. I am witnessing my 10 years old maturing quickly over the three months summer vacation. 1Hour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonM Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I don't think the troop is required to accept a new scout at any time just because they are eligible. Last year, our troop was fed from 3 packs with 3 crossover dates in 3 different months. I told them all that we would be starting the new scout patrol on a given date with their first campout (a NSP campout) later that month. We had some flexibility for certain situations, but I don't know how we could have gotten the patrol off to a good start if they had come 6 months early. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Hi All Why do the parents want their sons to move so fast? I think that is your concern and your point of discussion. My experience is most parents who push their kids faster than the norm are looking to get a jumpstart ahead of their group, usually its advancement in scouts. Whatever the reason, you need to sit and explain why the program works as it does to change their inexperienced vision with a picture of reality. They need to learn and understand that the BSA looses more scouts the first year in a Troop than any other age. If they want their sons to have a long enjoyable scouting experience, then they need to understand why waiting a few months gets their son's maturity closer to the other boys in the troop and a better chance for a successful scouting experience. Also, you need to counter their motivations by painting the big picture of the troop program. Example is if advancement (Eagle) is their motivation, explain how boys who focus on one of the eight methods usually don't enjoy the program and quit early. Boys who experience all the methods at a rate their maturity can handle enjoy the program a lot more and hang around long enough to earn whatever rank or goals they seek. My suggestion is find out the parents motivation and quietly refute it with logic and compassion for their sons future of scouting. I hope this all makes sense. Good luck. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronvo Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I have same situtation but invovlves only one boy. He will be 11 in October and so does fulfill the six month requirement. If they fulfill the requirements and the troop will accept them you have no authority to keep them from moving on. What are your boys ages? Will the troop they are going to have them in a New Scout Patrol together? I think that might help the transistion. good luck ronvo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMT376Richmond KY Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Reading between the lines I take these lads did not visit your troop or attend a boy scout outing with your troop for these two important AOL requirements. I'd casually ask them what interested them in your troop and not the troop/s they visited or participated in the outing with. Oh and by the way to earn AOL a boy does not have to earn all 20 activity pins just like to make Eagle a boy does not have to earn every merit badge. Do you not camp in the fall? We'd have about 6-10 nights by klondike in January in our troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubScoutJo Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 I realize that one doesn't have to earn all 20 activity badges for Arrow of Light. I was suggesting that having them work on additional activity badges might encourage them to stick with the pack for a little while longer....and have fun in the process. Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nldscout Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 No scout troop should accept boys not eligable for entry into Boy Scouts. These boys cannot have earned the AOL by september. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Tree Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Many fifth-grade boys will be at least 10 years 6 months old by September, and will therefore be eligible to earn the AoL. It does seem unlikely that the entire den would be eligible, though. Oak Tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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