Is bigger better?

[madkins007]

In a few forums, the size of a troop has been offered up as some sort of evidence that their program is working.

 

Having been a member of a large but generally disfunctional unit, I doubted the truth of that from the beginning but did not think overly much about it- my solitary experience in this odd town does not mean much.

 

Recently, however, I have noticed something. In the last month, I have been a part of a mega-church service, shopped at Wal-Mart and Cabelas, visited Mall of America, been to Miineapolis- a city more than 3 times the size of mine, and had some other experiences with big operations.

 

I suddenly realized that none of them was really all that good. The mega stores did not offer the best prices or selection and virtually no customer service on the floor. The mega church was no more spiritual or powerful than my church and was WAY less social. Mall of America is pretty much a monument to a dying breed of shopping experiences and seems to be loosing occupants and customers. Big cities offer little benefit over smaller cities, especially considering the increased headaches (crime, congestion, dirt), most of my friends tell me how much they hate shopping at the local mega grocery store when all they really want is a few basics and a quick check-out experience, etc.

 

It seems more like people ASSUME that 'bigger is better' so are drawn to the thing just because of size.

 

 

Does this work with troops and packs as well? Does 'bigger = better' most of the time?

 

I am NOT arguing that there is no benefit to size- each of my examples offered something the smaller versions could not. I am just wondering if we can use numbers alone to say that a troop of 100+ Scouts is better than a troop of 30?

 

And... even if we do not necessarily believe it, will parents and others shopping for units think that?

[SemperParatus]

Scouting is meant to be personal. This can be accomplished in units of any size, depending on the caring and motivation of the unit leadership. Proper use of the patrol method can ensure that a large group functions in a 'small' way. Success is measured by the impact of scouting on an individual boy, not on how many boys are 'processed through'.

 

I have always been involved in units that have experienced tremendous growth and became relatively large. Typically, we started small (some start-up situations) and grew very rapidly, all within an area with many unit alternatives. I have always credited this growth to (i) a strong adherence to the BSA program, and (ii) recruitment and training of a strong leadership team. As our units grew, we would constantly redouble our efforts by going back to the basics - are we offering the BSA program as promised and do we have the leaders in place to support the growing numbers with personalized service. Growth was never the goal...it just happened as a byproduct of putting together a solid and supported program.

[CNYScouter]

I have to agree with SemperParatus about large troop size being the byproduct of putting together a solid and supported program.

I my area the larger troops just seem to be offering a solid scouting program.

 

I know the SM of one of the largest, if not the largest troops in our council. The only recruiting he does his Troops involvement with the local Cub Pack. The scouts that cross over are only about half of his new members each year. Most of the rest come from scouts transferring in from poorly run programs.

His troop is in a community about half the size of the one I am in but has more kids in his one troop than there are in all three in our community.

 

But, as one leader in my new Troop told me:

 

its not how he is running his program his kids are different than ours

 

or in other words:

 

Its not our program its the kids today

 

CNYScouter

 

 

 

[Prairie_Scouter]

It seems to me that the Scouting program will work with pretty much any size unit as long as it is well managed. Whether the Scouts will get that "personal" experience is another matter. Our past SM told me story recently while we were talking about a local troop that has about 90 Scouts in it. They were at a Camporee, and, as you might expect, the Scouts spent a good deal of time talking amongst each other. 2 of these Scouts got to talking, introduced each other, and discovered that they were in the same Troop. Now, that's a single story, but I do think that the larger units might have some difficulty in keeping the "togetherness". Our own troop has about 20 Scouts in it, so certainly not very big, but our Scouts like it that way because they all know each other really well. Once again, a sample of 1. I'd like to get our troop a wee bit larger, but I don't want to get to the point that every meeting is like a Scout convention.

[EagleInKY]

I agree that a good program leads to a larger troop. But, a troop may choose to "throttle down" growth if they like. If they don't want to grow too big, they can limit the ways they recruit, have stricter joining requirements, etc. These are all allowed by the BSA.

 

I've seen a couple of research items on the subject. I don't know how accurate they were. The general finding, I believe, was that larger troops offer more opportunities for scouts. But, an ideal size for a troop is usually around 30-50. Once you get larger than that, it takes much more adult planning and coordinating and you tend to move away from some of the Boy-lead aspects.

 

Again, I don't know how accurate these reports were, but they do ring of some common sense, IMHO.

[Kahuna]

Having been in big troops and small troops, I agree that either can be good. Some kids left the big troops because they didn't feel connected with everybody and went to smaller troops.

 

I would observe that, all things being equal, a good troop will grow to be a large troop. You can cut off membership and create a waiting list. Meeting facilities and camping equipment may not be adequate. A lot of things other than bad program can keep a troop small.

 

In the biggest troop I was associated with, we were able to offer program that smaller troops couldn't. Most of our kids came from well-off families and we had a sizeable operating budget. We did a European trip, went to summer camp in a northern camp and mountain camps in nearby states. That doesn't substitute for quality program of course. You still have to have the basics. We turned out 4-5 Eagles per year.

[Lynda J]

Like others a large troop can be just as good as a small troop. I do think that kids get more one on one treatment in a smaller troop. I have 19 boys in my troop and I know in my head almost exactly where each and everyone of them are as far as advancement.

[hotdesk]

First, what exactly is a big troop? Some districts may consider a big troop to be only 30-40 scouts while others may have a much larger number in mind. The size of the troop depends on where you are and what resources you have available.

 

Rual districts and inner-city troops may be much smaller than some other troops, but that doesn't mean that they can't have quailty adult volunteers guiding quality boy leaders.

 

Also, very large troops can create 1 big problem in the fact that it will be hard for the Scoutmaster to carry on a close relationship with the group of scouts that he works with.

 

Smaller troops can have just as high of a quailty program, leadership (training, desire to be there, etc.), equipment, etc. than a big troop. It just depends on the wants and goals of the group of volunteers and leaders you have.

[Eagle447]

I also believe that a large troop is the by product of an excellent scouting program. Many cub dens seek us out to join . we have visitors at almost troop meeting........ but the bottom line - just like anything else - the more effort and work you put into your troop/program -- the better off you will be

[tiGGertoo]

Although my experience is with a troop that numbers no more than one patrol, I'm sure that there is a point at which a troop can be too big; however, there must be some optimal size where a troop has enough boys for several six- to eight-member patrols, so that there is always good participation (and parent involvement) in camping and activities. Has anyone figured out what this optimal number might be?

[Cubmaster Jerry]

I, too, have been involved in both small and large Packs - a CM for both. My small Pack had about 40 boys, the larger (current) one about 85 - 90. Obviously, the smaller unit the easier it is to manage. However, with my current one, I simply have to depend more on my leaders. At Pack meetings, activities such as games become much more to manage. How easy is it to play a game with 90 boys?! Additionally, on outings and off-site meetings, we have the potential for a HUGE group. As an example, for Blue & Gold, we had to make sure we had a facility that would hold 300 people.

 

This isn't to say that our program suffers because it is so large. It is successful, but, as mentioned, there is some disconnect between the boys. I would, however, highly discourage "throttling down" recruitment, even though it may be allowed by BSA. Rather, meet with your Unit Commissioner and discuss starting up another Unit.

[asmbmasiT144]

After 4 years in Cub Scouts, my son looked at five different troops and decided on a smaller troop.

The larger troops(300+ scouts) in my area sat the parents down and spoke with us adults. The deciding factor for my son was that one smaller troop greated him at the door and had left me to be the wall flower. T144 has ranged from 18 to 25 kids for the past 4 years. Logistics for most outings are not a problem, the boys have a great time when the parents are not stressed!

 

Thanks to all of you!

This is my first time on but have been reading for hours tonight, learning lots!!