If not AP Hill, then where?

[schleining]

1. I would not mind seeing the National Jambo move around, or at least move to a centeral location. I also like the idea of keeping it at A. P. Hill. It is a great facility and the infrastructure is in place to play host.

 

2. The ACLU does not have a dog in the hunt...

Do they not know that the Charter Organization of the Boy Scouts of America is the Congress of the United States. Therefore... the BSA is using Charter Org Property when camping at A.P. Hill.

 

3. Philmont is not a viable location. We go to Philmont for the pristine environment. The National Jambo would kill it.

The location would need to be a place that the weather is good and there are other things to do. One of the features of the Jambo is the extra tours (Gettysburg etc).

[2Eagle]

Just got back from the Jamboree and although work got in the way I still had time to read this post. Some misinformation I would like to squash...The Army was not recruiting. No 17 year old boys were asked to sign anything. I am retired Army, still work for the Army and knew some of the soldiers and commanders who were detailed for the Jamboree. We talked of this very issue and they were specifically not doing anything that could be misconstrued as recruiting because they knew the rumors would fly...as they apparently are anyway. They did however present a professional, enthusiastic demeanor to the boys and had outstanding exhibits and fun things to do and if some of that gets a kid interested in the military then so be it. It's a great profession and a great way of life. Is there potential danger? Yes. But many professions have potential danger. Setting up dining flys can be dangerous. Further, the Army and DoD don't support the Boy Scouts just because they have a potential recruiting pool or because it's good for training. Title X (Ten) US Code directs executive agency for supporting Boy Scouts to the Department of Defense and DoD has delegated that duty to the US Army. So regardless of what the ACLU and other detractors say, it's law. Until the law is changed I believe the Army will support Scouting and AP Hill will be the place. Last weeks legislation, if it stands, will reinforce the link not break it.

[Greeneagle5]

How about considering Disneyworld for 2010 ?

1)LNT principles wouldn't be a factor at WDW.

2)Private Enterprise/Corporate America could be financial sponsors instead of the DOD and American taxpayers.

3) WDW has the capability to handle 50,000+ hot, adventurous, excited youth, and staff.

4) Intrastructure already in place can handle, physical acreage requirements, transportation needs, food,waste, security considerations, and communications....shoot, 3 or 4 of their massive parking lots could take care of BSA's needs for the total Jambo.

5) WDW group package discount pricing would probably bring total costs in considerably lower than 2005(excluding DOD's contributions).

6) Staff could get free Fast-Passes to all the popular thrill rides after "lights out".

7) Magic Kingdom could open at 5:00 AM for Scouts in class A's.

 

On a serious note....... BSA should consider hosting 2010 on a BSA property (or on several properties) and using private sponsors instead of Uncle Sam's $$$ and resources.

 

G5

 

 

[Bob White]

There are a lot of things here that posters simply are not considering.

 

The reason the Jamboree stopped moving around is that the cost of setting up and taking down the needed infrastructure is simply no longer economically feasible.

 

Laws have changed. Environmental impact was not the concern in the 60s and 70s in our state and national parklands that it is today. Many of the parks that might have enough space no longer want or are allowed to have 70,000 people on its grounds for a day let alone 10 days.

 

Multiple locations is not the answer. It takes pretty much the same staffing and program costs to run a jamboree for 17,000 as it does for 32,000. It was difiicult enough trying to get a full staffing for one location, it would take twice the workforce to staff two locations and it is just not that easy to do.

 

The BSA has invested millions of dollars in permanent facilities at A.P. Hill to support and enhance the quadrennial Jamboree event. It would not be reasonable to simply abandon an investment of that magnitude. Any one who attended the 81 or 85 jambo and then went to this last one understand how well spent the money was.

 

You are not going to find a private property that has the needed open space to host the 32,000 participants, 4,900 staff, as well as nearly 10,000 daily visitors that a jamboree has.

 

Even if you find a place with the camping space, you need huge amounts of parking, and a network of roadways to accomodate support vehicles. No BSA property has the parking and roads needed to host a Jamboree.

 

So you can't just say "oh look there's a big hunk of land, let's do a Jamboree there". There is far more that has to be considered than most posters are not stopping to think about.

 

In closing a personal request.

 

PLEASE! Quit complaining about the distance.

Anywhere you put any event it will be close to some and far from others. I spoke with scouts from Sweden and they didn't complain about the distance, but scouters from our own midwest did.

 

Everything has to be someplace, if you don't want to travel there then go someplace closer, but stop expecting any national event to move because it is inconvenient for you personally to travel there.

[packsaddle]

I agree about the distance. Especially if that is removed as a problem, it opens many more potential options - I'm thinking Great Plains, for example. Hypothetically, how much open space does it require? I'm not asking how much it uses now but rather, ideally how much space would be needed? In any convenient units: hectares, square miles or acres?

[madkins007]

I volunteer the great state of North Dakota.

 

Its about equally far from anyone, is nice and big, and its not like anyone's using it for anything else!

 

OK, ok- joking aside, I would suggest the area around Rapid City, South Dakota.

 

- If I remember correctly, there are bases in the area being closed

- Proximity to Mt. Rushmore, Badlands, Black Hills, and more

- Area is used to the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, so theoretically can handle large, short-term influxes of people.

[Bob White]

The current event uses about 9 square miles of area excluding parking. Again its easy to say how about a chunk of land in Puff Bluff, heck we could name big areas of ground all day but unless you know that there is actually the needed superstructure, facilities, utilities, resources, available for use, your just spinning your wheels. The BSA Jamboree committees have been doing this for decades, you have to figure they know what basic elements need to exist for a jambo site, and AP Hill wasn't chosen by throwin a dart at a road atlas.

 

At this point in time why do you see a need to move? Why do you not see AP Hill as a viable location? The SOS Bill passed both the Senate and the House of Reps, the Circuit court case will be set aside or taken to appeal, the next jamboree is years away. Why the sudden urge to go somewhere else?

 

If you are really bothered by it being on federal property then don't go. But All the Places it was before was on State or federal property. At this point in time the BSA doesn't mind it being at AP Hill and it's their event, and the federal government must not mind because they allow the Army's cooperation. And the Army doesn't mind because they get a lot of good experience and a lot of good PR. So if as a participant you don't like it who is making you go?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Kahuna]

While I agree with Bob White that we are far better off with A.P Hill and it's facilities than moving around for the sake of moving, and I agree that by 2010, this case will be disposed of favorably to the BSA, I think National would be derelict in their duties if they don't consider an alternative.

 

2010 Jamboree is a biggie and I would hate to see us all lined up and ready to go, like the 1935 Jamboree, and have to stand down at the last moment.

 

As Bob points out, there are many more ecological and regulatory considerations today than in the 1960's. Still, they can be overcome. Problem is, it takes a lot of money and time to overcome them.

 

[Bob White]

Now I really am baffled Kahuna.

 

If you agree that AP Hill works, and that there is no sense to move for movings sake, and that the problem will be resolved in the BSA's favor, and that moving will add further expense, then where exactly is the "dereliction of duty" on anyones part by remaining at AP Hill?

 

 

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I beleive what Kahuna is talking about is that despite the Save Our Scouts Legislation and President Bush's promise of support, there is no guarantee that AP HIll will be available. GW wont be president and who knows what the composition of the Senate and House will be. I would think it prudent for the BSA to have a Plan B if the AP Hill rug is pulled out from underneath us after November 2008

 

If you think the SOS legislation is solid, remember the connection between the 18th and 21rst amendments.

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

When the BSA conducts this imaginary vote for plan B sites, my vote goes for Fort Carson in Colorado. The climate would be considerably more dry and cool. Heck, you might get to crawl inside the sleeping bag instead of just sleeping on top of it.

[Bob White]

If AP Hill is ruled out of bounds then so is every state and federally owned property, and that's about the only places being suggested so far on this thread outside of Philmont.

[madkins007]

Would an anti-AP Hill ruling knock all state properties out as well?

 

If we had to move it, and decided against a rotational plan (which certainly has pros and cons), I still think the BSA should buy some land for this, and I still think that a recently abandoned base would provide a good starting point... which is an idea that had been promoted several times in this thread.

[Pack391]

Just bring it here right into the center of the country. Oklahoma City or even Dallas would be a great location because of the wide open space of Oklahoma, it's centralized location in regards to Dallas, St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Albuquerque, etc..The national scout headquarters and museum is only 2 1/2 to 3 hours away in Dallas. If it was held in the Dallas area, the national center and museum would be right there along with the numerous attractions that the Dallas/Fort Worth area have to offer..

[concerned_scout66]

Did anyone else hear the rumor at Jamboree that BSA was interested in holding the 2010 Jamboree in Dallas, TX?

 

The way the rumor went was this: Ross Perot was willing to donate a large parcel of land that he owns North of the Dallas/Ft. Worth airport. There's a lake there. BSA is very interested in having it's own facility and is already lining up donations to put in the needed infrastructure.

 

I don't know how much credence to put to this rumor. It seems like a stretch for me. The government subsidy we get by using A.P. Hill is massive and Dallas ain't exactly a tourist mecca...

 

Rick