Let's keep that boy in Scouting

[juris]

Fellow Scouter's--Dan k,cny scouter,JD, ed Mori,Prairy Scouter,deavah, Bob White and etc. I hate to say I agree with most of you. I am also glad to know many Scouters see my point of view. Check the 9 points, I outlined to "Dan K "(What made my Troop a success. I have a very good backgrounf in Scouter training programs, such WB at Gillwell Park,(UK),Staff training,Provisional SM training, Scout exchange programs, international scout camp staff training at Kandersteg, Switzerland, and etc.You see BSA,Inc.claims they can train any one to become a leader of boys ? WRONG ! He atleast should have been a Boy Scout, and enjoyed Scouting. He should not be neccerily a father, but he should enjoy being with kids.

Training is important, but he should be willing to see if all the consepts are workable. Try to increase your membership of the unit by successful recruiting.Some of the council's recruiting practices outlined from the national council are useless.SM should select his ASM, and not the commitee choosing him. SM should select his commitee chairman, that is going to work with you, even if you make mistakes. Keep a commitee small ( 4 to 6).Insdead create an auxialary team( supervised by an ASM ) of dedicated fathers, who will help you with some of the logistics. A large commitee becomes a debating sociaty, and many times interferes with Troop's program. Don't let your overninght activities get over saturated with scout dads. Boys want to get away from their parents, at least on the week ends.Oh, here I go again writing a book ! If you want to know my other thinking on this subject, read my 'post'"

Keep it simple, make it fun " Juris, www.

[Prairie_Scouter]

Well, I have to admit that I wasn't a Scout as a boy. Didn't have it in my neighborhood in the 50's/60's, and so I learned most of my outdoor skills by almost killing myself on several outings that are now, mostly, humorous memories.

 

But, I have been through much of the BSA leader training, and I think that they do a creditable job of preparing an adult to become a Scout leader. Now, I'm still not convinced that taking the training automatically makes you a Scout leader. There's more to it than just knowing what's in the books, although that is a very good start. I rely on more experienced Scouter to provide advice on some situations; not "in the book" situation, but "dealing with boys" situations. The training does help with this, but the training doesn't cover every possible situation and personality combination that might arise. Beyond that, there's a personality element that helps to determine whether an adult can be an effective leader of young men. Not everybody has the innate patience to do that, and I don't know that any book can teach it to you beyond basic concepts.

 

I agree that smaller committees are better. I don't select them; it's more a matter in our troop of "if you don't have the ability/time/etc to be an ASM, then please help another way, perhaps on our committee". We have more ASMs than committee members, and that does work well for us. We do counsel the parents, that while always welcome, it's better to let the boys get out on their own a bit. Even tho I'm the SM now, I still check with my boys to see which outings they'd like me to stay home from. They deserve some time away too.

[SeattlePioneer]

Sorry Juris, I don't agree with you that a background in Scouting is necessary to being a leader.

 

I had none. I learned my outdoors skills by doing a few thousand miles of backpacking and climbing, snowshoeing cross country skiing and a good deal of bicycle touring and bicycle camping.

 

I served a year as an AS and took the regular Scoutmaster training before becoming a Scoutmaster for five years or so, completing Woodbadge along the way.

 

I also don't think that a Scoutmaster should select the Troop Commmittee Chair. That leads to excessive influence by the Scoutmaster, who needs to be accountable to the Troop Committee, not the other way around.

 

Parents who are trained in the methods of Scouting and good people in general should be assets on outdoor activities, and more adult leadership may help create a richer program if properly supervised and directed. I think we can agree that parents or adults can be a handicap rather than an asset on trips.

 

I don't recall BSA ever making a claim that anyone can be trained to be a good Scout leader. Instead, I see constant emphasis that invitations to be a Scout leader should be offered to only people of exceptional personal character.

 

 

Sorry, I find myself disagreeing with most of your post.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[SR540Beaver]

With all due respect, I registered as a leader with the Boy Scouts of America and I'm duty bound to follow the program as designed. If I can't do that, I can resign. If I do it my way, it ceases to be Boy Scouts.

 

One other note Juris, please quit referring to BSA as BSA, Inc. It is obvious that you are doing so in a derogatory manner and that is not scoutlike. It is beyond me how someone can spend 38 years involved in a program that they speak ill of.

[SemperParatus]

"You see BSA,Inc.claims they can train any one to become a leader of boys ?"

 

Where is that claim made?

[Bob White]

Juris,

While I realize it is too late for you to remove my name from your list, I will hope that one of the many moderators of this forum will do that for you. Please do not include me in any future lists of people that agree with you unless I give you my permission to represent me in such a way.

 

To this point in time I have not found anything of any real substance in any of your posts to be able to agree with, your most recent post included. It is unfortunate that you took it upon yourself to infer that I had.

 

Respectfully,

BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[bbng]

SR540Beaver, well said. It is interesting to me that the original poster starts out by making a claim of knowing how to keep a boy in Scouting but does so by not following the program. What came to my mind is that this person may have kept boys in a program, but it was not the program of the Boy Scouts of America.

 

In reading other posts by this same forum member, it seems that he or she may have led a program for 30-some years, but the program described thus far is not that of the Boy Scouts of America, which is correctly referred to as the BSA or Boy Scouts of America:

 

Boy Scouts of America: The legal name of the organization is singular. Example: "In 2010 the Boy Scouts of America will celebrate its 100th anniversary." The abbreviation is BSA (without periods) and is used with the article ("the BSA") when used as a noun.

 

Juris, you've made many claims as to what you've accomplished, but you've not posted your Wood Badge course, your NEI number, or things of that nature that fellow Scouters enjoy hearing about. It would be interesting to hear this.

 

Leadership requirements do not include being a father (as was correctly stated), but they also do not include having been a Boy Scout, having enjoyed Scouting while a Boy Scout, or even enjoying being with kids. As for a troop commitee debating and interfering: perhaps a troop committee that holds a SM accountable to following the BSA program would find that inconvenient, but a troop committee is in place to select and support a SM, which would include accountability. If I were a SM who was picking and choosing methods, I would absolutely want to avoid the troop committee, for I'd rightfully think my time as SM would be coming to an end.

 

The BSA often says that every boy deserves a trained leader, but I have yet to have heard or read that any person can be a leader. In fact, a list of qualifications is in place with training for the charter organization representative in carefully selecting leaders. It may not always be used, but the method is there, and no one I know of (in 30-some years) has regretted following that process. However, many who have not followed it have ended up regretting it.

 

The bottom line is that adults are in leadership for the sake of the youth. If the motivation is not to serve them, then the adult has no business being a leader. According to the BSA, both the adult and the youth will learn (Boy Scouts is a boy-led, boy-run organization, but the boys must be trained to be leaders. One of the Scoutmaster's most important responsibilities is to provide the direction, coaching, and training that empowers the boy with the skills he will need to lead his troop. Scouting's value to young people is clear, but the advantages of Scouting are not limited to boys. Adults also develop leadership and physical skills with every training experience.) However, I have not yet attended Wood Badge, but I'm working toward that, and it will be with the goal of learning to better use the program I've already been instructed in. Surely you would agree that my taking Fast Start through Wood Badge is the best way to learn the BSA program in order to best benefit the youth? It doesn't seem as though you would now share that goal, but at one time, for you to have held so many roles and to have been so committed in giving of your time, you must have believed in the program. Otherwise, I simply don't understand the investment of time you've laid claim to.

 

In reading your other posts, I find it hard to agree with your assessment of yourself that you've a very good background in Scouting. You may have had many opportunities to grow as a leader, but in a short time, right here on these forums, you've managed to show that you do not understand or support the program. There is just no way to say this without sounding offensive, but my goal is not to offend: it is to try to get a grasp on the things that appear incorrect. If I have misread you, then by all means, please set the record straight.

 

By the way, what is www. after your name?

 

Footnote: items in italics are quotes from the National Council of the Boy Scouts of America.(This message has been edited by bbng)

[acco40]

IMHO, outdoor skills are the least important tools a SM needs. How to teach leadership to the boys is much more important. The outdoor skills is just the icing on the cake. Now, if that is the case, having skilled outdoorsmen on an outing, either parents, SAs or youth for that matter is important.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[ozemu]

BP wasn't a Boy Scout.

 

My SM was.

 

Both were great men.

[evmori]

This thread is funny! The originator lumps a bunch of us together & says he agrees with us when most of the time we don't agree with each other! And then on of the bunch is offended he was included and wants his name removed! What a hoot!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[ronvo]

Whay is it juris seems to start a thread but never contributes further to that thread?

 

Who IS this guy.

 

May be after his name he should write he used to be Fat Old Guy?

 

ronvo

[Its Me]

 

Juris uses sweeping generalizations, states the obvious and over emphasizes his experience. He is a kid.

 

 

[SemperParatus]

At first, I suspected he was a child as well. Now, I'm not so sure. His poor spelling, horrific punctuation and broken English now leads to me believe he is from a foreign land (or planet). A child trying to pretend to be an adult would, at least, make some attempt to come across as more knowledgable and legitimate. Read my other posts...amen.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

[bbng]

In fairness to the youth here, I'd like to point out that many do communicate clearly and well.(This message has been edited by bbng)

[Lynda J]

I don't agree with you. Our SM had never been in scouting until 6 years ago when his son moved up into the troop from cubs and the troop was in trouble. He is a GREAT SM. The troop has gone from 6 registered boys then with only 4 active to 17 very active boys. Had our first Eagle in the troop in over 10 years this year. Have two more coming up within a year.

To be honest some of the most ineffective SMs I have seen are people that were scouts themselves. They get the attitude that they don't need training because they "were scouts". So they know how to run a troop.

So a good SM does not have to have been a scout. He just needs to have the desire and committement to want to teach boys how to lead. And the ability to sit back and allow them to sometimes make mistakes.

My dad use to say. "A good leader is one that everything gets done and no one realized who got it done. A bad leader is one that wants to make sure everyone know how hard they are working and takes credit for everything everyone does."