Is Boy Scouting Too Loosey-Goosey?

[FScouter]

"Recruiting CO's is a long slow slog..."

 

I often wonder which is easier: recruit a new chartered org and start a new unit, or work with the existing chartered org to select quality leaders and replace the bad leaders. It seems that all too often the solution to bad leadership is to abandon the unit and start a new one. There must be an easier way to rid a unit of bad leadership.

[scoutingagain]

Just to follow up with Eamonn's summary of this thread so far.

 

Q:How many CO's do little or nothing?

A:Lots

 

Follow up questions with no answers.

 

Q: What can individual unit leaders do to get COs to get more involved?

 

Q: Why would a leader of a "loosey-goosey" unit that thinks they are doing OK, want their CO involved?

 

 

SA

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>Did you use these people to prepare the CO for their role?

 

If you knew the importance of the COs role in supporting a scout unit and you saw that it was not going to exist there why did you choose to start the troop there?"

[dkurtenbach]

Eamon wrote:

----------

Q:Is Boy Scouting Too Loosey-Goosey?

A: Yes

Q: Does National, The Council or The District have the tools to make unit leaders follow and deliver the program?

A: No.

Q: Who does?

A: The Chartering Organization.

Q: What happens when they don't do anything?

A: Scouting Loosey-Goosey?

----------

 

Agreed. I'm not suggesting that National, the Council, or the District can *make* a unit do anything. I'm suggesting we try to find ways to _persuade_ units (through training, roundtable, formal and informal contacts, etc.) to more closely follow the program and be less "loosey-goosey."

 

Working with COs to get COs to influence the operations of their units (or mandate changes) is certainly one way to approach the issue, but directly implicates the CO-troop relationship, which has its own can of worms.

 

Dan K

[Kahuna]

I dunno. I have never seen a CO that really gave a flip as long as the unit wasn't causing them trouble or bad PR. The only COR I ever had that had a scouting background never did anything positive for us and tried to steal troop equipment for the church that sponsored us. I've heard other Scouters tell the same story. That's how I came to the conclusion that it's just better to keep good relations with them, stay out of their way and use a separate 501©(3) corporation that I can control to own the equipment. You pretty much have to do that with boats, anyway, so I just take everything in the name of that corporation and lease it to the unit for $1.00. You only go to the COR if you need someone to go to bat on the Executive Board for you. And, since the corporation can only convey the equipment to another 501©(3), people who donate funds or goods are protected against the possibility that I would run off with it.

[FScouter]

"You should praise Beav for the many hours he gave to find a willing CO and start the troop because without him, it would not have happened."

 

I must seriously question the value in starting a new unit solely for the purpose of solving a problem in an existing unit. A better use of resources would have been to use those hours, and the DEs hours to develop the CO and leadership of the troop he left, and solve those problems. Instead, we still have the first troop with poor leadership and an inactive CO, and now a new unit with growing pains and an inactive CO. Im not convinced this is better for the long term success of Scouting.

[SR540Beaver]

Fscouter: "I often wonder which is easier: recruit a new chartered org and start a new unit, or work with the existing chartered org to select quality leaders and replace the bad leaders. It seems that all too often the solution to bad leadership is to abandon the unit and start a new one. There must be an easier way to rid a unit of bad leadership."

 

We were the new kids on the block when we crossed over to the troop. It is a long story and I won't bore you with all the details. In short, the troop had done little to no recruiting for a few years and had mostly older boys. The older boys wanted to do high adventure. They were not thrilled that a bunch of little kids had joined them and rained on their parade. Their parents made up the committee and had much the same sentiment. When we crossed over, we brought 5 WB trained adults with us who had served as DL's, CM's, UC's, committee chairs and the district training chair. We were pumped about moving up to boy scouts and was just looking for a "good" troop for our sons to be in and for us to serve. I think they felt threatened and thought some sort of coup was under way. Especially since they didn't come looking for us, we found them. The last straw was when the treasurer (SM's wife) of the troop stood up in a committee meeting and threw three ring binders at the committee chair while screaming her head off, said she quit and stormed out of the room. That was bad enough on its own, but the boys were in the next room and heard the whole thing. Our new unit commissioner happened to show up for that committee meeting. A special committee meeting was called to discuss the issues and was attended by the COR (a veteran scouter and Siler Beaver). His view was that the CO really didn't want to get involved and that we all needed to play nice with one another. The treasurer explained that what she meant was that she "quit" that meeting and not the job. The old timers on the committee piped up and agreed that that was what she meant and they all took a vote of confidence for her. What was the committee chair's (one of the new scouters) infraction that caused the whole episode? She wanted the treasurer to provide monthly statements to the committee. We saw the hand writing on the wall and realized that the adults didn't take keeping the oath and law seriously. We didn't want our sons exposed to adult leaders with such low standards. Rather than work from inside to change the bad leadership, we chose to leave and start our own troop and run it by BSA standards. We thought we had done our homework on picking this troop, but sometimes you don't know what you really bought till you get it home and try it out.

 

Barry,

 

Thanks for the props!

[Eamonn]

I just caught a few minutes of my all time favorite TV show; West Wing. There was a wonderful line that went something like:

"Why do we we preach to the choir?"

"Too make them sing!"

I think that maybe I'm far more of a pessimist than FScouter and Bob White. Or maybe I just give up to soon?

Q: Why are some Leaders Loosey-Goosey?

A: They don't know any better

Q: So what do we do about it?

A: We lead by example, we offer training's, we coach, we mentor, we offer help and support. We show them where the resources are. We use the Scout oath and law to show them that once they have agreed to be a leader in the BSA,that they now have an obligation to follow the program and deliver it to the youth they serve.

Q: Why not just make all of this stuff mandatory?

A: A Scout is to be Trusted.

Q: How come some units are Loosey-Goosey?

A: The adults starting at the very top are not doing what they are supposed to do.

Q: So what can be done?

A: We lead by example, we offer training's, we coach, we mentor, we offer help and support. We show them where the resources are. We use the Scout oath and law to show them that once they have agreed to be a leader in the BSA,that they now have an obligation to follow the program and deliver it to the youth they serve.

Q: What happens when this doesn't work?

A: We keep preaching.

Q: Where should we start?

A: The COR

Q: What happens if he refuses to attend the training's?

A: We bring the training to him. Our job is to train people not have training courses.

Q: Everyone is saying that this doesn't work.

Q: How do they know? Have they really tried?

Eamonn.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[evmori]

Our CO gives us a place to meet & store our gear. We get some time during the church service on Scout Sunday to present the charter & that's about the extent of the involvement of our CO. And I would bet that is the extent of most CO's involvement(with the exception of LDS units). Our leaders come from the parents of Scouts in the Troop & they are recruited by the existing Troop leadership. And I would bet this is the case in most units. Does out CO understand their responsibility? Doubt it. Do most? I doubt it. Is this a bad thing? Not necessarily!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

So, Ed, why are you content to leave your CO in the dark? Why not develop the relationship? Only good can come from it.

[Fuzzy Bear]

If there is trouble in the unit, who is it that gets involved?

1. The District Executive

2. The District Commissioner

3. The C.O.R. is told about the problem and is usually told to stand down while the experts handle it.

4. ADC's and Unit Commissioners are told to stand down. They will have an opinion and might say or do something that might have unintended effects.

5. The C.O. may be told about the problem after the intervention but it is done as an aside after the fact.

6. A D.E. wants to preserve the institution from involvement at all costs because the C.O. might otherwise shut the program down.

7. I have yet to see any C.O. outside the LDS units get involved and tell the leaders what to do.

 

 

Is it a job duty of the C.O. to get involved?

Yes.

 

How do we get the C.O.'s involved and do it effectively?

1. The LDS units have taken the Boy Scout program as their youth program.

2. Few other churches want to accept the Scout program as theirs because they already have youth programs they call their own. They will Charter a unit but that is generally seen as a duty to the community.

3. The LDS unit leaders are "called" by the Bishop and are told to run it properly but within the framework of their church.

4. Few churches can marshal a "calling" of volunteers because most like the idea of a paid minister. They usually talk about people having gifts and being ministers but it is a theory. The only real minister is the one behind the pulpit. The BSA program is seen as secular no matter what is argued in this forum.

 

What are the reasons people decide to act or get involved?

 

1. People enjoy friendship.

2. People want to share their interest with like minds.

3. People want to know that what they are doing counts.

 

People in a church:

Enjoy the weekly friendship.

Enjoy sharing an interest that extends into involvement.

Believe that what they are doing has life-changing value.

 

Aren't these the same things people in Scouting enjoy and believe?

 

It takes time to train a person so that they will become your friend and will then listen to you.

 

Few of us want to marshal a person into Scouting. The people that I miss the most after any major move are my friends, especially my Scouting friends. Outside of work, I spent most of my time with them. Communication by example was the strongest with my Scouting friends because they were willing to not only listen but watch and then do.

 

That takes time and it happens with one person at a time.

 

 

FB

[evmori]

FScouter,

You are really good at reading into posts. Never said we were content. You did. We have tried to get the CO involved many times. The interest isn't there. As long as we don't cause any problems, there are no problems. And I would bet that is what goes on in most units.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

"We have tried to get the CO involved many times."

Ed - don't try to get the CO involved in the troop. YOU, get involved in the CO. Try it?

[evmori]

Ed - don't try to get the CO involved in the troop. YOU, get involved in the CO. Try it?

 

Why shouldn't we try to get the CO involved in our Troop? After all, they own it!

 

FScouter,

I am not a member of the church that charters our Troop and I am not planning on joining. I am a very active member of another congregation. I am as involved with our CO as a member of our Troop.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

Ask if you can attend their next executive board meeting. Give a quick report on the doings of the troop, the last campout, court of honor, etc. Anything to develop the relationship is good.