Making Commitments - Do you have this problem?

[EagleInKY]

I have a frustrating problem with just a few families. It has to do with them making commitments for activities. We normally try to get a commitment to an activity by the troop meeting two weeks prior to an event (usually it's just under two weeks since our meetings are on Mondays). For most people this isn't a problem. But for some, it seems to be a major inconvenience. We have numbers changing up until the day before and sometimes the day of an event. It gets quite frustrating and it's difficult to plan food, transportation and other logistics.

 

When it's work related, I understand. We have some dads who are pilots and are often on call. I can accept that. But what frustrates me are the ones who are waiting to find out if something more important is going to take place. Usually it's a sports event, but sometimes its other things as well. It's like they're saying "Scouts is most important as long as (fill in the blank) doesn't get in the way".

 

Do you battle this? For me it's only with a couple of families, and I've tried talking to them about it. They think I'm from another planet when I ask them to commit one way or another.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The two Scouts are making decisions about a program that they had a voice in planning and were given adult support to make it happen. They should have a choice to reject their own plans but I always find that rejection a curious one. I would hope the excitement of the remainder of the Scouts would be enough to keep anyone from looking over their shoulders at those that stayed home.

 

When I meet adults that were once Scouts, they always remark about their disappointment about not achieving Eagle. What they are really bemoaning is that they rejected a program that carries a great amount of meaning to them for things that has little or no value. When I do meet a fellow Eagle, it is not the achievement we speak about but it is the many activities we shared in common.

 

I don't remember every camping trip but I can attest to the fact that many camping trips are among some of the best things in my life that I do remember.

 

 

FB

[Eagle74]

In the interest of brevity and sanity, the answer is Yes. And like your experience, it's usually the same folks every time. This is a sore subject, if I can find it in me to add more info later without going into a rant, I will.

[Eamonn]

Back in the day!!

Our guys had to get their cash to the Patrol member who was buying the food, a week before the event.

This might fall a little short on being Kind, but it worked for us.

(Once the food was bought and paid for there were no refunds!)

Eamonn.

[madkins007]

Get the money up front. If they don't pay, they don't play. If they back out later, more food for the other guys!

 

That was the ONLY way we got a couple of families to start to commit at all, otherwise it was the same thing- last minute changes of mind, etc.

 

It got to the point we asked those families to help in other ways and usually assumed they would not carry out any designated task, so made back-up plans.

 

Most of them did not last long in Scouts, sadly enough, but

[SR540Beaver]

We do what Eamonn said. You pay in advance and if you don't go, no refunds. Take it to the committee and make it a policy. To be "fair" to the non-commitals, make the deadline for paying up the Monday meeting before the campout. They have to get off the fence in time for food to be bought and transportation arrangements to be made. If they pay and don't show, they are out the cash.

[evmori]

We do the same as Eamonn & SR540Beaver. Pay up front. No refunds if you don't go. Works well.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Prairie_Scouter]

Agree with the others. We require payment for an outing before we start planning for the shopping, so we can figure out how much to buy, so that's about a week before the event. No refunds once the shopping is done, but if a Scout has a legitimate reason to drop out of a trip, then we'll do what we can to refund unspent funds from their outing fee.

 

How that plays into other non-outing responsibilities is another story. Getting people to sign up for car washes and other fund raisers is sometimes a hassle. Some don't think it's worth the effort, and in some cases, we've found that they have a point. We've had car washes where the Scouts work half a day and end up adding 10 bucks to their Scout account; hardly worth the effort, although you still like to get the guys participating from the aspect of helping the troop.

 

And, as someone said, you get to know which families are likely to bail at the last second, and plan around them.

 

So, yeah, it's an ongoing issue. Seems everyone I talk to has the same challenges.

 

[SemperParatus]

We hold true to our self-imposed two week cutoff on sign-up and payment. In spite of constantly communicating this policy (including having the sign-up deadline disclosed on the information flyer, announced at meetings, posted on the website, confirmed on troop-wide e-mail, written on the sign-up sheet and permission slips) I still have parents getting teed off at me when little Johnny can't go because he or they procrastinated. It didn't help when an ASM organizing a trip played fast and loose one time and let people sign-up right up until departing from the parking lot, in spite of our troop policy. He learned a very valuable lesson as he had several people commit, back out, recommit and still never show up. Be firm...eventually these families will fall into line and follow the policy...or they will go somewhere else (which would not necessarily be a bad thing in some cases).

[jr56]

My units have always had the policy of a sign-up deadline, usually the week before the event. Money was due or you could not sign up. Once funds were spent (food was bought), there was no refund. You have to resort to policies like this to save your sanity.

[Eamonn]

I think it comes under Trustworthy.

Eamonn.

[KoreaScouter]

Procrastinators are a challenge, but they're easier to deal with than somebody who commits to something, then doesn't deliver. The former are an annoyance, and easy to deal with. The latter can torpedo an event. I've been burned by them in every unit I've been in, and people like that don't get a second chance with me. I've had them volunteer for things later on, and I always tell them I don't need their help.

 

I've never understood people who agree to do something because they think it's what you want to hear, with no intention of following through on it. I've got a thick skin, if you can't do something or don't want to, just tell me, I won't break down in tears.

 

KS

[frankj]

We meet on Mondays, so our Troop asks for the committment (and the money) at that time. The outing dates are publicized well before then. I agree with the 'no refunds' rule unless the Scout has a very good reason My wife and I have experienced the lack of committment and follow through in other volunteer activities. It makes one appreciate those who "deliver" that much more. I think a good way to handle it is to have rules, guidelines, or policies -- whatever you choose to call them, that are sent to Scouts and parents in written form. It could be formulated jointly by the Committee and Senior Patrol and then go out signed by the Senior Patrol Leader.

[EagleInKY]

KS - I certainly agree with you. I'm sure we all have a few people in our group that we know are not 100% reliable. We learn to never rely on their attendance. I had one family that dropped the ball on me twice and another leader once. After going 0 for 3 with us, we totally avoided their involvement.

[Lynda J]

Madkin is right. Get the money up front and there are no refunds. If a boy can't go to the activity for a good reason his troop account if credited the amount less any that the troop was before he decided he couldn't go.

 

Once you start doing this it is astounding how quickly last minute changes stop.

 

Our CC required half of the amount of summer camp be paid in Feb. Of the 16 boys that signed up only one backed out. We refunded his money because his dad wanted him the entire month of June for a business trip out of the country. He had no control over it.

 

My mother was the greatest at getting adults to committ. If someone ever told her that they couldn't help with something because they "didn't have time" she would pull her 4'9" frame up full straight and look them in the eye and say.

"You mean you don't have an hour or so to give to your child in something you can do together? That is so sad." Believe me she had about 99% of the parents in any group she worked with willing to do about anything she wanted them to do.