"parents are often paying big bucks for high quality experiences "

[Eamonn]

I think that parents will spend their hard earned cash on high quality experiences.

I think I touched on this in a thread about our District or rather the Troops in our District not offering high quality programs.

The problem seems to be at the local level, at least in my area.

Scouts seem to do much the same thing at the same time every year.

I have to rush off to a Area meeting, but really hope that we can explore this topic and see what gives.

I'm unsure if the District, Council, Area or Region should or should not play a more active role. I'm sure some Venturing and Boy Scout Leaders might see this as interference.

Eamonn.

[SemperParatus]

I would never view increased opportunities as interference.

 

I presume you are talking about high adventure opportunities sponsored and promoted by your District and open to all eligible scouts from all troops in the District on a first come first serve basis. That would be very refreshing.

 

Our District is clearly in a rut of doing its two Camporees each year, with a lack of imaginitive thought on larger and more engaging possibilities for scouts with a strong interest in doing something more than that supported by their individual units. Council opportunities exist, but I think doing this at a District level may be a better sell with many boys being familiar with those from other units (through school, sports, etc.).

[Prairie_Scouter]

I think it'd be great to get more support from our local Council and District in ways that help us provide a better program. But, more often than not, I'm told that our Council and District don't have more events because they have a hard time getting people to run them.

 

One thing I see is that kids get into some programs at a very early age, so say, at the 1st grade level, you'll see boys starting to sign up for sports programs that compete with Scouting. So, it becomes a matter of why those programs do a better job of drawing youth than Scouting does. I suspect a certain amount of it is the parents. If a parent wasn't a Scout as a youth, it may be harder for them to see the "activity value" of the Scouting program vs something else.

 

I don't think we should be discouraging boys from picking Scouting over baseball or soccer or whatever, but I'd like to see Scouting activities be the ones that get picked when there's a scheduling conflict. Especially once you get into high school, the sports programs become pretty demanding, and if you're not there for every practice and game, you likely won't play, so that makes it more difficult for Scouts when those sports are in season. I can understand the coaches wanting the boys available because they are covering new skills at each practice. Problem is, many times the same thing is true in the Troop.

 

And, a certain amount of it is kids today seem to be overscheduled much more than in the past, which aggravates the scheduling conflicts. I know kids who eat their dinner in their vans as they drive from one activity to another every day. You would think that at some point, the parents would start to say "no".

 

Kids that stay in Scouting for a little while can get to do some pretty cool stuff. Recently, we were fortunate enough to go to Seabase and spend a week aboard a tall ship. Where else are you going to get the opportunity to do something like that?

 

Sorry, a lot of random thoughts today. But, there's something about getting the boys interested early, and keeping them interested for the long term. But, we also have to realize that the constant conflicts are going to be a fact of life, and we have to figure out how to deal with them while still delivering a quality, and just as importantly, fun program. And, getting the word out that the program is there and is, in fact, pretty cool!

[hops_scout]

'You would think that at some point, the parents would start to say "no".'

 

Why? If a youth wants to do it, why not give them the chance?

 

If you look, all the major colleges look for you to do more than just play sports; just be in Scouts, etc

 

The way West Point describes their candidates are those who are "Renassance Men/Women"

 

 

[Eamonn]

Trying to think like a parent and not as someone involved is hard for me.

I now feel bad that because I didn't like the idea of Thailand, I dismissed OJ's wanting to go. I wasn't keen on spending $3,500 on him going someplace that I didn't want to go. I'm not going to take all the blame as he could have done a better job of pleading his case.

He will be 17 next month and it seems that Scouting in the Troop that he is a member of stops at 16 or soon after reaching Eagle Scout.

The Troops in the District or maybe the Scoutmasters in the District seem to lack imagination. Or it could be that they never hold on to the older Scouts long enough to do anything with them. Kind of like the chicken and the egg and which came first?

In our Council we do have a High Adventure Committee. They are doing a better job than they used to do, however it seems all they do is offer very limited spaces to Philmont, Sea-base and I think they did try Northern Tier once. It seems to me that the same old same old groups go every time.

Looking at our neck of the woods, we have one Scout Camp which has the facilities and the location to offer older Scouts a program that I think they could get their teeth into.

It is owned and operated by Greater Pittsburgh, has a fine lake and offers motor boating,is close enough to Laurel caverns, which offers caving, climbing and rappelling and is close enough to the Yough River for white water rafting. There are trails for biking and hiking.

I don't know what Heritage Scout Reservation charges for a week at camp? We charge $170.00. I,wearing my parent hat would not blink at paying $300.00 - $350.00 to send OJ to a camp that was action packed and full of fun and adventure.

Of course the problem is that the camp is there to serve to members of that Council. I don't think that a Scoutmaster from Greater Pitt. Would be happy to learn that the week that he has always gone to camp is no longer available to him and the troop.

One big problem that the District has is that a District doesn't own anything, we are just an arm of the Council, so unless we could talk the Council into buying equipment and maybe allowing the Scouts that want to attend the more expensive activities to fund raise in the name of the Council (Like Jamboree Troops) The district would have to borrow equipment from a unit.

Then there is the unhappy SM, who will feel that the District is taking away the older boys. As most of the Scouts have never been trained in certain areas or have skills that are rusty, it wouldn't just be a couple of weeks at the activity, it might mean older scouts missing a few troop events.

I can't help thinking that maybe somehow, someway the OA could really be a big help in this area?

Eamonn.

[Kahuna]

I think most troops are not able to offer big-time experiences, especially for the older boys. It's one reason Venturing, including Sea Scouting, is popular with the older ones. Many Scoutmasters are reluctant to see older boys get involved in these because they see it as a loss to the troop. Usually, the boys will multiple register and stay with the troop, too.

 

It definitely is true that most troops lack imagination. Our troop was in a relatively affluent area, but we still got kids out to raise money for the big activities. We always went to summer camp in the mountains and once we even went from Florida to summer camp at Owassippe. We also put together a European trip, most of which was in England and Scotland. We made contact with British leaders and set up home hospitality or hostels, so we made it as cheap as possible. I am always seeing mainland Scout groups in Hawai'i, for summer camp and spring break jaunts. Most leaders just think: "there's no way," and that's the end of it. Where there's a will there's a way.

[Eamonn]

Venturing and Sea Scouting could provide the program that these older Scouts yearn for.

The problem is leadership.

There are people like myself who think it might well be a good program, but it's not for them. Just as some Cubmasters never move up into Boy Scouting and are happy to stay working with the little fellows.

I may be guilty of being an old stick in the mud, but my feelings are that there are a lot of good and worth while organizations that do a lot to serve the youth in the communities where they operate, but I chose boy Scouting and didn't choose Venturing.

We lost 3 Crews this year (They didn't recharter) One only started last year and never ever had a meeting!! One started two years ago and the Adviser bought a green shirt, that's about all he did. The other didn't do a lot, but was around for about 4 years, they didn't recharter because the Crew never had any new members just the core group that were there when it started.

All were connected to Boy Scout Troops. In most cases these Crews said that they were high adventure, sad to say the leaders only adventure was watching the Discovery Channel.

We have a Crew that is doing a wonderful job, the girls and the boys (Mostly ex-Scouts) are doing lots of stuff. The Adviser is an ex- Assistant Scoutmaster, who took six years off and returned. Nearly all the Crew Members are in some kind of gifted math class that he teaches at a local HS.

While in other threads the big concern is membership and numbers, I have a nagging feeling that do nothing leaders are the big problem.

We have 16 Troops in the District, of this 16, one is dieing in fact it's dead but it won't lie down, one is thinking about dieing, they have the adults but never do anything but work on merit badges. One is new, only about six years old, up till now they have done a wonderful job, but they don't have the skills to take older Scouts to the next level. One has the reputation of being one of the better Troops in the Council. I attended a COH and someone gave me a stack of photos taken when they were in Canada canoeing. As I looked through the photos I seen a lot of the adults and very few Scouts. I asked the SM how many people went on the trip? He said that 18 went,eight scouts and ten leaders. I looked at their membership list and they for the second year running had lost nearly all the little guys who crossed over.The SM talks about kids not liking the program, but to my mind the program has become an Adult Club, where a select group can tag along. The rest have SM's who have all been SM's for at least 12 years or more, some a lot more. These guys are happy to do the same old same old and they are being joined by adults who wear the ASM patch, but their reason for joining is just to keep an eye on their son. They don't even bother to learn the most basic skills. They are just there.

This is fine, but one day when their son reaches about 15, he will want to do stuff and if it isn't there for him to do he is going to quit and Dad will be the guy saying that Scouting had nothing to offer and little Timmy outgrew Boy Scouts.

Eamonn.

 

[Prairie_Scouter]

Hops,

The answer to your question about why not let them do something if they want to do it, has a couple of answers, at least for me.

 

One, I think kids need time to be kids. That is, they need some unstructured time where they can use their innate creativity and give it a chance to grow on its own.

 

Two, I think that parents have to realize how many activities our kids can participate in and still give a quality effort to each one. Sure, we want our kids to try different things, but at some point, all these activities can start to affect their school work, for example, or their time with their families.

 

Three, parents can only support so many activities. Kids need to transported to these activities, and if you get enough of them, pretty soon the parents start to lose their family time as well.

 

A few high schools in our area found that their students were getting so overbooked with elective classes that they were skipping lunch altogether. These schools have started policies limiting the amount of activities that a student can participate in, whether it be the amount of elective classes or after school activities. They are concerned about the overall well-being of these students.

 

Yes, colleges do look for candidates that do more than just "show up". It used to be that college admission programs just wanted to see long lists of outside activities, but I've read that even they are starting to wake up to the fact that just having a long list of activities doesn't necessarily mean much.

 

So, outside activities? Sure, great idea. Endless list of activities? Nope.