WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!

[wadahoot]

>>I'm consider keeping my son in Scouting and work with him to get his Eagle and get out. Doing things the way this troop is doing Scoutng the Eagle Badge has lost all its meaning.

 

My wife thinks I should pull myself and my son from Scouting as he is just not getting the things that we wanted him to get out of the program.

[ronvo]

I was in a couple of those "rebel" units as a boy. I lived for scouting, had a great time and earned my Star. Of course I was mostly ignorant of how things were suppose to be. I did know it wasn't as presented in the literature.

 

I know now what I missed out on had the units follwed the program more closely and had more trained leaders.

 

The boys will have fun pretty much no matter what. The adults however owe it to them to deliver a quality program.

 

My son is second year Webelo and I find myself in a similar situation. The troop our pack is associated with is sponsored by the same church - however I am not impressed with what I have seen while visiting the troop a number of time the past few years. They have produced a lot of Eagles - which honestly makes me wonder.

 

So I have been wrestling with staying and trying to instigate change, moving to different troop, starting a new troop ( I should have 10-12 boys crossover) or start a small scale local Woodcraft program.

 

I don't know the answer yet, but I do know CNY we will find support here.

 

YIS

ron

the lurker

[CNYScouter]

At this time my son's does enjoy Scouting and wants to earn his Eagle Badge so working with him to get it should not be a problem

 

The things he enjoys about Scouting - the outdoor activities and earning MB's are why he stays in. However, I don't need Scouts to do this stuff. We can do camping on our own and we have enough programs available around here outside of Scouting that covers just about any MB topic he would like to do.

 

In being an Eagle myself the older I get the more I realized that although these were the same things that I enjoyed with Scouting, and what kept me in the program, the other things like leadership, adult association and service to others, things that I felt that when I was a youth were necessary evils to participate in the program, are the things that I used most in life. These are the things I do not see him getting in the program

 

Fscouter The troop did discuss assigning an adult leader to advise each patrol. The thing is that this has been discussed every year for the last 3 years but never done. I do like the idea about earning the Honor Patrol.

 

CNYScouter

 

 

 

[FScouter]

Take on a task. Be successful with it. Others will take notice and say "Hey, maybe that guy knows more than we thought!" Then you say "Oh, it's right out of the Scoutmaster Handbook."

[juris]

What is your position in the Troop ? The Troop is run by the SM and the Spl. Not the commitee nor didgrunted fathers, WHO don't like what they see. My suggestion is that all the ADULT leaders, (not the commitee), get together and trash this problem out, and then back the Scoutmaster.ALL DISGRUNTED INDIVIDUAL STAY OUT OF THE WAY. AND GIVE THE VOLUNTEER SCOUTMASTER A CHANCE TO RUN THE TROOP, WHITHOUT 'TOM AND DICK AND HARRY INTERFERING ' AMEN.

[CNYScouter]

Juris-

I am an ASM in the Troop.

I have every right to be disgruntled and have every right to ask the "Volunteer Scoutmaster" to follow the program.

 

I wanted my son to join the BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA not a version skewed by a couple of people who think they can do it better!

 

I have been with two troops.

 

They both have issues with youth leadership, low turnout on outings, scouts not wearing uniforms.

 

They are trying everything but following the program.

 

I have visited Troops that followed the BSA program.

They dont have any where near the issues of the other Troops.

I have seen the program in action and it works.

[hendrickms24]

CNYScouter,

I agree with you and hope that you can make the other scouters see the light. As a scout I saw my great troop slowly turn in to an adult ran troop by non trained scouters that thought Boy Scouts was an older version of Cub Scouts. There were many a time that my brother and I would butt heads with these Scouters which I sure just made thing worse (I sure I was not very tackful since thats something I have had to learn over the years.)just to have the younger scout do things on there own. Its just sad that some adults do not know how to treat teenagers as the youg adults they are. I was told a couple years after my younger brother got out of scouts the 50 years old troop folded!

Good luck,

Mark Maranto

[orennoah]

How true. Us adult leaders need to be ever mindful of not overstepping our bounds and making sure that the boys are running the Troop. It's an atitude that must come from the SM, though.

 

An minor example from my Troop's meeting tonight: A new Scout brought his packed backpack to the meeting to have his Patrol Leader check it out to see that he was bringing the right things (and none of the wrong things) to Summer Camp in three days. (I never looked in it. I merely complimented the Scout on his fine choice in backpacks.)

 

After the meeting, I saw his father (not a registered Scouter) with the pack on his shoulder. I asked him, with great enthusiasm, if he was coming with us to Summer Camp. He said "no." So, I told him to drop the pack right then and there. At first, he thought I was joking. I assured him that I wasn't. He dropped the pack and I explained that each Scout was responsible for his own gear. When the Scout got it home, Dad could do whatever he wanted with it. But on Scout trips, he was expected to carry and care for his own stuff.

 

In writing, the above sounds like a confrontation. It wasn't. It was all good natured and a learning moment for that Dad. Smiles all around and a lesson learned and the Troop's boy-led culture passed on.

 

- Oren

[Beavah]

Whew, CNY.

 

I think perhaps the "deep breath, step back" is in order. If you are expecting perfection in every troop you touch, you will always be disappointed.

 

Sounds like your son is enjoying his Scouting experience, but you are not. The proper response is for him to do more, and you to do less. It'll make you both happier.

 

Loyalty, Courtesy, Kindness, and Obedience demand that an ASM be a vocal supporter of the SM, even when he or she isn't perfect or even correct. Helpfulness implies that an ASM should step up when their personal skill set can make a contribution. I've never heard of "disgruntled" as a right, but I believe "Cheerfulness" is an obligation.

 

The Ideals Method and the Scout Law apply even when we're not successful with the other methods.

[Bob White]

CNY

I am with you. As ASMs we are there to assist the SM in delivering the BSA program. Our responsibility is to see that the scouting program is delivered to the boys, not to sit silently while the program is ignored and boys are abandoned. If SM's responsibility to follow the program and keep the promise of scouting is not being fulfilled then you have a responsibility as a leader to try and get it back on track. If that is not possible then you have a responsibility to your son to find him the best possible scouting experience and go to it.

 

BW

[Beavah]

"Our responsibility is to see that the scouting program is delivered to the boys, not to sit silently while the program is ignored and boys are abandoned."

 

Yah, you need some violin music to go wit dat melodrama, eh?

 

Come on, BobWhite. CNY visited 9 local troops and found this one to be the BEST. His son is happy in the program and has made good friends. The committee discussion sounded like a good committee discussion, not a micromanagement session. The troop recognizes its weaknesses and is willing to engage in long discussions with a bull-in-the-china-shop newcomer, and even begin to give the newb responsibility.

 

"Ignored and abandoned" is a bit much, dontcha think?

 

 

[Bob White]

What CNY said was that they camp and focus on MBs, that the scouts are not learning leadership, and that the activities are not interesting to the scouts or they would have better attendance.

 

He wants his son to be in a scouting program and not a camping club. I think he is right.

[CNYScouter]

I totaly agree with BW on this.

 

Beavah-

I feel that as an ASM its my responsibility is to see that the scouting program is delivered to the boys and I should say something if I am not seeing it done.

So, the SM has decided not to use patrols anymore I should sit back an acept that. I don't think so. And yes, I was in a troop the the SM did this.

 

At this meeting I was given the goals from the Troops last 2 yearly planning session. They have had the same issues for this long. They have the same issues again this year to work on. They have tried everything to improve these issues but follow to the program.

 

I am an Eagle Scout. My son enjoys the the same thing I did as a youth in Scouting, the MB's, the outings and the freindships and these are the things that kept me in the program.

As I grow older these are not the things that were important.

The other things I learned leadership, giving service to other and being a role model are the important things I learned as a Scout.

 

These are the things I don't see him learning in the program and they are the reason I had him join Scouts

 

CNYScouter

 

 

 

[Beavah]

CNY, you should of course do what you think is right for your son and your family. There certainly are "issues" in your troop, things that I would not consider ideal.

 

But I gotta be honest, pardner. Ya sound like a candidate for a Bravo TV reality show... "Scout Kids Moms and Dads."

 

Talk to your son. Ask him honestly what he's learning and enjoying. His scouting experience will never be a clone of yours from 20 years ago, and if you try to make it that you will fail utterly. It has to be HIS. Youth leadership means listening to and letting the youth choose and make mistakes. Listen to your son, let him choose, even if you think it's a mistake. Then relax a bit.

 

Or choose curtain #3... start a new troop and be SM. Find a supportive committee, and run the program you want. Sounds like your area could use an exemplary troop. As an added bonus you'll develop a "special appreciation" of new parents who come in pointing out your weaknesses, and of how imperfect SMs need the kindness and support of their assistants.

 

Good luck with it.

 

Beav

[juris]

To NY Scouter,GNYC has some great training sessions,go and learn something new in Scouting. But keep an open mind.Patrol method is a good concept, BUT NEEDS CLOSE SUPPERVISION AND TRAINED ADULT GUIDANCE. Otherwise it's a disorganised bunch of kids running around in a circle.

Try to recruit young ASMs ( ex scouts )that don't have their son's in the Troop (1) They most likely stay longer in the Troop (2) They might like the Scouts and the program, and would make good mentors. Many fathers are forced into Scouting, and they try to get the heck out of it, as soon as they can.

When you get this new leader, stay out of his way, and let him and the boys run the troop.( if it is successful, and the boys are happy ) But support it financially. I used to invite MB counselors to come to my unit and have their presentatiion for 15 to 20 minutes,so they can sign up the Scouts.He would hold meetings at his home or after the Troop session. " Keep it simple, and make it fun"

Juris.