Troop By-laws

[ScoutMomAng]

Okay all...I know I brought this to the table once, but remember I've only been doing Cub Scouting for the past 4 yrs and have now ventured into the Boy Scout world.

 

I did as told and went to the "By-Law" meeting and voiced my opinion and the BSA rules and regs and was pretty much not listened to. The "committee" has gone ahead with the new "by-laws" and they are currently 9 (NINE) pages long!!!!! I disagree with 90 percent of it. The scoutmaster says he's not signing it and if he doesn't sign it then there will be no by-laws.

 

As it turns out the two people doing most of the by-law making are....well one will be leaving the end of this month...supposedly, and two....the other should be leaving by November.

 

Things in these by-laws are ridiculous, to say the least.

 

1. A boy must be present 80% of the time or he will be considered in active unless he has good reason. It doesn't say if 80% is a month or 2 months a year or what!

 

2. A boy may not wear a bolo tie unless he is at least a star rank...is that a by-law???? I thought anything the BSA put out whenever is considered appropriate uniforming...nothing retires ever.

 

3. The scoutmaster is appointed by the COR AND approved by the committee chairman!?????? I thought this was the other way.

 

4. Merit badge counselor cannot be a family member if others are available, unless it is being taught in a group setting. If a family meber must be a merit badge counselor all work must be verified by a second adult working as a co-counselor?????

 

Anybody have any words of wisdom for me????? Is there a way, without typing all 9 pages out, to link to the by-laws or can I copy and paste it to here for anybody wanting to see the whole darn thing???

 

Ang

[evmori]

While I am a "I Like Bylaws" member, these are over the top! Find a new Troop!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

I don't want to get into looking at each and every rule and discussing what I believe to be the rights or wrongs of it.

While I do not like or think that many Scout by-laws are worth the time that people put into writing them. I do believe that a Troop Committee does have the right to write them as long as they do not go against BSA rules or by-laws.

Eamonn.

[nldscout]

While I am not a fan of BIG thick by-laws or troop rule books. I do beleive a troop needs some rules that members and parents can understand.

 

The SM is wrong in saying that he must sign it to be in effect. Writing by-laws is a committee decision, not the SM. If the majority of the committee approves it then its a done deal.

 

And the SM is appointed by the COR and CC, that is a BSA rule.

 

That being said if 1 of 2 is leaving in a month, and the other is leaving in November, wait them out. Then write new bylaws.

 

My feeling is if it more than 3 pages it tooooooo much and no one will read it.

[szekany]

Wow, sounds like quite a mess you've managed to step into.

 

First of all, welcome to the crazy world of Boy Scouting! As you've seen already, some people take the "game" a little too seriously.

 

ScoutMomAng wrote:

> 3. The scoutmaster is appointed by the COR AND approved by the

> committee chairman!?????? I thought this was the other way.

 

Yes, this is correct. The scoutmaster is empowered by the committee to manage the troop. It isn't so much a "working under" relation as it is analogous to a board of directors and CEO arrangement. The board hires the CEO, but gives him jurisdiction over virtually all operations and [if they're doing their job right] don't interfere unless there's an actual problem.

 

My guess is your committee is primarily a loose collection of parents who really do appreciate the scoutmaster, but probably don't understand the function of a committee. We fixed this in our troop by going to a more traditional "board of directors" type committee made up of people with real experience and vision from the community. This might be the long-term fix for you.

 

In the short term, it sounds like the scoutmaster holds enough clout to be able to veto this proposal. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about it anymore - it'll blow over and next week the committee will have something new to complain about. If this isn't the case and you're in jeopardy of losing the scoutmaster and many troop members from this issue, then you should take it to the attention of your chartered organization.

 

nldscout wrote:

> The SM is wrong in saying that he must sign it to be in effect.

> Writing by-laws is a committee decision, not the SM. If the

> majority of the committee approves it then its a done deal.

 

While this is technically correct, it's important to remember that the committee and SM relationship is expected to have a level of trust both ways. In this case, while it may well be within the "right" of the committee to pass bylaws, passing them without the approval of the scoutmaster is a decision to fire the scoutmaster. The reason is that for the committee to overrule the advice of the operating head of the organization would be for them to say they no longer have confidence is his/her ability to effectively lead the organization, at which point the scoutmaster has virtually no choice but to resign from the organization.

 

[FScouter]

What szekany said.

Rules written up and filed away in the committee filing cabinet mean nothing. If the SM ignores them, what's the point? Who is going to tell the boy he may not wear a bolo tie?

[CNYScouter]

ScoutMomAng,

 

I'm surprized that no one has questioned that how come the Troop Committee is making the by-laws.

 

If Scouting is boy-run how come the Scouts in the Troop are not the ones making the by-laws?

 

I thought that the Troop Committee supported decisions made by the Scouts and not make decisions for them?

 

CNYScouter

 

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Run away fast from this troop...This troop is heading down the path of controversy. How many members of this committee have attended training for thei position? My guess is probably none of them if they had been trained they would have none their putting up obstacles that prohibit a good program.

80%? and whats a valid excuse not to attend? My advise dont get involved with a troop that prefers rules over program and training.

[Student]

I have not heard of any situations in government where passing more laws increased the freedom of the governed.

 

One of the unfortunate effects of by-laws is that by-laws limit both the individual Scouts and the troop. By-laws are never written to enable the troop or a Scout to do bigger, bolder things than it or he had ever done before. Instead, they are written to prevent something from happening. They protect adults from having to take a stand or represent an ideal. From the discomfort of trying something that hasn't been done before. From having to tolerate the sometimes-sloppy-but-well-intentioned activities of a boy-run troop.

 

But what a loss! Ignoring the time and emotion spent by adults writing and arguing over each of the bylaw's lines--time and energy that could instead be directed to working directly with the Scouts--there is a huge loss of the flexibility and latitude that is critical to the personal growth of the Scouts and the troop. It is critical the Scouts be able to try new projects and activities in order to grow. It is critical the Scouts have an expanding vision of the future rather than a limited (and limiting) concept of maintaining the status quo. Throwing away a Scout's dreams is far too high a price to pay for the comfort of some adults.

 

Student

[ScoutMomAng]

No...I don't think I will run away from this troop fast. This troop needs me! I see, in the future, that this troop is going to have complications from these new by-laws. They are also going to hava complications when these two people leave this troop. If I leave they will not have somebody to stand up for the boys and bring the boys into the decision making of the troop. Second, when the one lady leaves (if she leaves) they will be left without a troop Committee Chairperson.

 

Eamonn---I have to agree with you...as a troop committee we can not make the by-laws so they go against or make the BSA's policies more strict.

 

I do not currently know how many of our committee members have been trained but I know that our council is not the best in its trainings and when August/September rolls around and they shell out another training for committee chair...I will be sure to be in that place!

 

CNY--I agree, the boys should be a part of making the by-laws...thanks for bringing that forward.

 

SMRon---a vaild excuse is pretty much anything! A boy can call the scoutmaster and say, "I have too much homework", "I have a baseball game tonight", "My mom won't drive me so I don't have a ride"....apparently all of those are valid excuses, they just have to make the call. But if a scout is not present 80% of the time without an excuse then after two months they will be removed from the troop roster until they have a scoutmaster conference.

 

Student---how very wise you are! You shed a little more light in my wisdom tunnel to make me think a little harder and come up with a new plan.

 

Thanks to all for your advice and wisdom. I will let you know how things turn out in the end.

 

Ang

[Eagle Foot]

As part of my "Woodbadge Ticket" I put together a troop manual AKA Troop By Laws. The word by laws has something to me that makes all of this scouting to legalistist. I wanted to put to words some possible answers for problems / challanges that had come from being a scoutmaster over the years...Thus it was named the "Troop Manual & Guide" You have to follow BSA policy you cannot change what national has in "The Guide to Safe Scouting" you can add as long as the Charted Orginization has approved it and the committee has placed its blessing on it. You do have to be realistict...do you want your troop to grow or do you want to stay at five scouts?

 

A form posted some time ago from BR in Florida said that if the dominant adults continue to run the troop it will most likely allways stay small. If the boys are allowed to run the troop and with good adult leadership...that has an active program... the troop will grow.

 

Boy run it will ususlly level off to around to three to four patrols. Sort of self governs. A senior patrol leader can only effectivly lead, serve, and direct fourty to fifty scouts...and then he will have to be a seasoned mature scout, that has a mature behaivor.

 

 

The COR does appoint the unit leader after canadate selections from either the committee or appointed leader search team. The unit leader does not appoint the COR. The COR also appoints the committee chairman or in some charters the mens group, clergymen, or other group decide how this will happen. The unit is owned by the Charting Organization, they can set standards.

 

I would sugust not leaving...but take this as a challange...if your son is not happy...you will need to consider this, but give it a fair shake by spending a little time. You can visit other troops in your area and in the mean time... see how they are doing things. Talk with your DE they will know of the local "TOP NOTCH TROOP" in the area. Most of all YOU GET TRAINED and you will be able to have first hand experience on just what is right and what is not in the ball park.

 

Edidted by Eagle Foot

[fleetfootedfox]

I am not a big fan of going much beyond the rules that have been set out by the BSA. I think some simple bylaws can be useful if people will actually follow them, but the worst any organization can do to somebody for ignoring their bylaws is to kick them out.

 

Fortunately, bylaws can always be ammended, and the SM does not have some kind of veto power unless your troop has given him that power in the bylaws.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

OK, let's play parse the stuff...

 

1. A boy must be present 80% of the time or he will be considered in active unless he has good reason. It doesn't say if 80% is a month or 2 months a year or what!

 

Go show your Committee this one:

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=158762&p=1#id_158779

 

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/mbc/rank.html'>http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/mbc/rank.html

 

2. A boy may not wear a bolo tie unless he is at least a star rank...is that a by-law???? I thought anything the BSA put out whenever is considered appropriate uniforming...nothing retires ever.

 

See the Uniform and Insignia Guide, BSA Supply No. 33066. SFAIK, neckwear in a Troop is supposed to be "all or nothing:" Either Scouts and Scouters all wear neckwear, or none do.

 

3. The scoutmaster is appointed by the COR AND approved by the committee chairman!?????? I thought this was the other way.

 

Yep, this is 180 out. See this:

http://www.scouting.org/commissioners/resources/18-981.pdf

 

4. Merit badge counselor cannot be a family member if others are available, unless it is being taught in a group setting. If a family meber must be a merit badge counselor all work must be verified by a second adult working as a co-counselor?????

 

Here's some info on MB Counselors

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/mbc/

 

Believe it or not, I have less of a problem with this. I helped our Troop do Citizenship in the Nation a few years back. I sent my son to another Counselor. Although there is literature from National saying I didn't have to, A Scouter is Trustworthy: I wanted to set an example of avoiding a conflict of interest (there are parents who WILL lower the bar).

 

 

Anybody have any words of wisdom for me????? Is there a way, without typing all 9 pages out, to link to the by-laws or can I copy and paste it to here for anybody wanting to see the whole darn thing???

 

Ang

 

HTH

 

EDIT: You may have to fiddle with a couple of the hyperlinks. Sorry

(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[SWScouter]

Do you guys realize that it's just a couple days shy of two years since this thread was last replied too?

[John-in-KC]

No, I saw 6/13 on the original post and went to town.

 

I gotta say, though, with the materials National is putting on the National Website, there are fewer and fewer of "the secret files of Irving" we volunteers in the field have to muck with