Wanted, information on Truth

[gavvin]

Disclaimer: I am not a studied philosopher or schooled in logic

 

There might well be no universal truths. Truth, in my thinking, is based on perception. If you ask all witnesses at a particular event what exactly happened, you are likely to get several different and possibly conflicting reports. Each of those stories is the truth as that person perceives it. Arguing with them to the contrary is usually futile as they "know what they saw" and any descrepancies are likely due to an error on your part.

 

As a species, Humans tend not to trust any information that they do not experience first hand. Examples: Take a sniff of a particularly foul smelling item and say "That really stinks! You believe how bad that stinks!" and then hand it to your friend. Most likely, they will also sniff it just to verifiy the accurracy of your statement. It is not truth to them until they experience it.

 

The existance/non-existance of God is NOT a truth for anyone living on this Earth. It is a belief. It is a very powerful belief for some but the existance of God cannot be experienced. It can be postulated, believed, sought, refuted, extrapolated, and imagined, but not experienced. Those who say they have "experienced God" have only had an experience that deepens thier belief.

 

Perception as truth is very powerful. Something does not have to be factual for it to be a truth. To a person who perceives you dishonorable or untrustworthy, you ARE dishonorable and/or untrustworthy. This perception need not be based on any facts for it to be a truth for that person.

 

 

 

[johndaigler]

So then it seems, TRUTH is really only the sum of personal truths. An individual "choices" all aspects of his/her life, thereby defining TRUTH as those truths they believe to be unchallengable (by themselves).

 

I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with this. Once I agree with it - I think I turn it into a TRUTH. Hmmmmmmmm, am I ready to do that? Down at one possible end of this path (through many dark and dangerous ways) I think there's a place that says I've defined, if not created a god for myself . . . Or perhaps, I've just seen more clearly a Face of God.

 

Then again, of course, being human I might well change my mind about any one of the Truths I've found along the way . . .

 

Hmmmmmmm . . .

 

Who started this thread??????? Fuzzy Bear? Fuzzy Logic? Fuzzy Thinking? -- no, that would be me . . .

 

jd

 

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

OGE,

Re: The same truth has many facets or there are many truths.

 

Ed,

Re: We become our parents.

 

OGE

Re: Greatness is independent of the person and is determined entirely by chance, fate, and whimsy. Greatness is in the eye of the beholden.

 

Acco and Ed,

Law has two faces, both blind.

 

gavvin,

I share your ignorance about truth but mine is much deeper.

 

Re: Truth is an elephant of immense size and proportions and we can only experientially know it. God cannot be experienced, so therefore God is not of this world. If one believes in God, their belief can only be accomplished through a leap of faith. Perception is an aphrodisiac and can alter truth for the beholder.

 

Jd

Re: Every person is an island built upon truth, alone unto themselves. To understand ones truth is to converse with God.

 

Add: Truth can appear like a mornings mist, beautiful and unobtainable. In my youth, I desired to catch a cloud in a bottle.

 

FB

(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

[Eamonn]

Any information I might have on truth would be like beauty in the eye of the beholder and might not be fact or even true.

I was out with Rory, who is turning out to be a super nice friendly dog when I thought as good and as powerful as truth might be, it can be replaced by unconditional love.

Eamonn.

[SWScouter]

Truth is an elephant of immense size and proportions and we can only experientially know it.

 

So, that is the whole truth and nothing but the jumbo truth. Or is it the tusker truth or maybe the tembo truth. If truth is an elephant are all pachyderms truth or is a rhino just a small truth? A tusk is just a big fancy tooth, truth be told.

[madkins007]

Found it! The quiz is "Beyond Tue and False' by Robert Anton Wilson, published in "The Fringes of Reason- A Whole Earth Catalog"

 

OK- old questions:

1. Shakespear wrote 'Hamlet'.

 

2. Geoge W. Bush wrote 'Hamlet'.

 

3. Jesus was the son of God.

 

4. When you let go of a hammer, it will fall down.

 

Answers:

1. Probably true with what we know now.

2. Possibility that he wrote something about the play or something called 'Hamlet' at some time.

3. Would be called a 'rule of the game'. It is a given to one group- the set of people 'playing' the 'game' of Christianity. (Please do not be offended by the word choice here- I am just trying to paraphrase the much longer article!)

4. As mentioned, ONLY applies if other conditions are met- gravity field, nothing supporting or hindering it, etc.

 

Some new questions from the quiz include:

 

5. pq=qp

6. There is a planet in our solar system outside of Pluto's and/or Neptune's orbits

7. Colorless green ideas sleep furiously

8. Charlie Manson was responsible for several murders

9. A court found Charlie Manson responsible for several murders

10. The following sentence is false

11. The previous sentence is true

 

The quiz and accompanying articles discuss 'true' and 'false', and related issues by pointing out that there are many other options. Rather than just true or false, a question or point may be meaningless, incomplete, depend on a different logic or value system, depend on knowledge not shared by others, flawed in some way, or more.

 

With that in mind, the answers to the last questions are:

5. Not according to Hamiltonian or 'non-cumulative' algebra (which means absolutely nothing to me!)

6. In the last issue of Popular Science, they mention SEVERAL planets out that-away! If you did not know that, the question would seem true to you.

7. Is obviously meaningless... however it demonstrates a point in the science of Linguistics, so could be considered true in a limited way.

8. Would be considered 'legally' true, since he was found guilty, but is unknown since we don't necessarily have all the information.

9. Is true unless you believe there is a vast conspiracy out there to rewrite history.

10. Is incomplete as written and needs more data, such as the next statement.

11. By itself is incomplete, but coupled with #10 creates what has been called 'a Strange Loop', sorta like the classic Star Trek 'I, Mudd' bit ('everything I say is a lie').

[evmori]

Ya lost me on your last post, FB.

[gavvin]

If you think THAT was strange, read Robert Anton Wilson's Illuminatus Trilogy. You will never look at the world the same way again. Very good read, but very strange. A lot like Douglas Adams.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Ed,

If I lost you on my last post, then it probably means that I misunderstood the truth you shared or I failed to communicate adequately a truth that I thought I understood. Truth appears to have a characteristic of being within our grasp yet is really beyond our reach. Communication may be the wrong vehicle to gain access/knowledge about it.

 

madkins,

Let me see if I have it this time. Our knowledge about truth (de-limiting) appears correct, but knowledge also limits our understanding. So, breaking through the barrier reef of truth may only set one out upon the sea of larger truth. Belief tends to bind our knowledge about truth. The Laws that we understand only work if certain criteria are met to allow them to work. Mankind is one part of a much larger and expanding universe and so goes our knowledge.

 

SWS,

All elephants have some truth, no elephants contain all truth, not all elephants exist at any one time, any distant relation to an elephant must be considered as having some truth, so we are out of luck.

 

Eamonn,

A dog's unconditional love is a truth that reaches us and is beyond words.

 

Well, I have enjoyed this. I am off to our great capital today to gain knowledge and truth at least that is the story I am telling my wife.

 

Thank you each and everyone for sharing. I have found that I am not alone in my quest.

 

 

FB

 

 

[Trevorum]

Excellent thread. I've much enjoyed everyone's thoughts.

[evmori]

FB,

It could be your truths are different from mine therefore your interpretation of my truths is different.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[frank10]

In my best Jack Nicholson / Col. Jessep: "You can't handle the truth. "