??? What are the Rules ???

[evmori]

This seems like a good question. What are the BSA rules? Not are they good or bad rules. Not should we follow them or not. Not which one is more important. What are the BSA rules?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[John-in-KC]

Well, to me...

 

Bold print in G2SS are rules. Those are things that directly affect physical safety of youth.

 

Youth protection policies (which are in G2SS) are rules. They provide a framework to protect the youth for inappropriate activity, both adult/youth and youth/youth.

 

The Advancement program has several rules, the first one being the requirements for Eagle and the waiver procedures.

 

The Oath, Law, motto and slogan are good rules for all of us, youth and adult alike.

 

Tonight I give Scouter of the Month at RT to a dear friend. This friend epitomizes Trustworthy, Loyal and Helpful!

[SemperParatus]

I'm all for Brad Rutter (the recently crowned grand champion) replacing Alex Trebeck as host of Jeopardy. He has much more personality.

 

The BSA has rules?

[Eamonn]

I have copies of the Charter and Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America, Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, Standard Local Council Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws.

All are very small booklets.

As has been mentioned there is the G2SS.

Other places where I would look would depend on which program I was working in. For Cub Scouts there is the Cub Scout Leader Book along with the Wolf, Tiger, Bear and Webelos Scout book. For Boy Scouts the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Boy Scout Handbook.

The National Web-site of the Boy Scouts Of America.

I also think that we learn a lot of the methods and rules from the training's that we attend and from people who are in the know. These would include Scout Executives, knowledgeable Commissioners and other District or Council personnel.

While many think that people like our very own Bob White are a little terse I really like the way he backs up what he says with a reference as to where he found the fact that he is stating.

A lot of what we do isn't governed by rules or regulations, but has over the years become what is expected things like weekly Troop meetings or monthly committee meetings.

Some chartering organizations have made changes to the program so that it is better fit for them. I'm thinking of the LDS Church, I have never spent anytime looking at what the changes are because we don't have a LDS unit or church in our District.

At Wood Badge some participants were a little upset about the lack of knowledge the Staff had about the Varsity Program, but again we don't have a Varsity Team in our Council and neither did the other Councils that the Staff came from.

At times we tend or I tend to work with the rules. regulations, bylaws and guidelines that I need to know and when something pops up that I don't know I either ask or try and look up the point that I don't know.

At times in units, Districts and Councils some things become "Unwritten" rules or just a rule based on a myth. We have seen things like ear rings and tattoos discussed at great length in these forums.

I don't know how it came about but when I was serving as a Cubmaster our Den Leaders started wearing a yellow ribbon with all the parent pins that they had been presented with (Wolf, Bear..) I think it started because our Den Leader Coach was doing it and she got it from the Council Cub Scout Training Chair was doing it. I did point out that this wasn't part of the adult Cub Scout uniform and that it shouldn't be done, strange thing was that all the Den Leaders stopped, but the Den Leader Coach who was very close friends with the Council Cub Scout Training Chair, didn't. Later when I became Council Training Chair I asked the Cub Scout Training Chair to stop wearing hers and she did. However by this time the idea seemed to have caught on and more and more Den Leaders were wearing little yellow ribbons on their uniforms. Strange how a bad example catches on so rapidly.

Eamonn.

[SWScouter]

Wow, I'm surprised that the most important rules of the BSA have yet to be listed. They can be found in the Uniform and Insignia Guide. It contains all the pertinent information about scout socks and other such details.

 

 

SWScouter

[evmori]

Eamonn mentioned guidelines so we will take this one step farther.

Are guidelines the same as rules?

And rules for the purpose of this thread encompasses regulations & laws.

 

Eamonn,

Excellent post! Thanks.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

I'm not sure there is any value in getting into an 8 page discussion (argument) about the definitions of words like "rules", "guidelines", "laws", and "regulations". What's the point?

 

Guidelines are simply rules one doesn't want to follow.

[Eamonn]

Are guidelines the same as rules?

A tough question to answer.

As many are quick to say the Insignia Guide is a guide. If however we go to the rules and regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, look at (Please forgive me my copy is 1999 printing)Article X, Section 4, clause 4 and read the Protection of Uniforms. It seems to me to be a rule.

Ed, I might be wrong? But I think you are going to come right back at me with a uniform isn't required for membership. And you will be right on the money. The Article deals with the protection of uniform and people not changing it.

Very often the Rules will refer us back to the guidelines which I see as then becoming rules.

I however am not versed in the law and hope that maybe our good friend from New Jersey will jump in and help us out.

Eamonn.

 

[SR540Beaver]

Ed,

 

What's the point? After a number of years and countless threads, you still like to beat this dead horse and ignore any evidence presented.

 

I'm reminded of a buddy of mine I used to work with some 20 years ago. Discussion around the water cooler turned to religion and beliefs on salvation and heaven and hell. This fellow was of the school that a loving God would never condemn someone to hell. Having a degree in religion, I spent hours and hours and did the Bible study and research and gave him the results. He took about a 10 second glance at it and said, "yeah, well that is your interpretation" and blew it off. The difference was I had scriptural documentation and he had his self derived sentiment.

[madkins007]

Uniform is a good example. Wearing one or not is a GUIDELINE. HOW to wear it is a RULE. The uniform is one of the legally protected emblems of the program, and the BSA has the right and obligation to enforce certain standard to keep it protected.

 

It is sorta like you don't HAVE to drive a car, but if you do, you HAVE to drive it according to the rules.

 

The insignia guide, therefore, is full of the rules for wearing the uniform correctly.

 

Another missed source of rules would be the various applications, tour permits, fundraising permits, etc. Each of these lists some of the concrete rules the BSA operates under for safety, liability, or to protect the image.

 

The handbooks are a mix of rules, suggestions, and tried and true tricks. It can be tricky sometimes telling which is which but most are pretty clear as to which category they fall in.

[FScouter]

"It can be tricky sometimes telling which is which but most are pretty clear as to which category they fall in."

 

I see no purpose in categorizing unless one's intent is to ignore those in a particular category.

[Bob White]

As far as unit operation as distinguished from District/Council operation. There are 4 areas that the BSA controls through national policies.

 

These areas are (in no particular order)

1. Safety

2. Membership

3. Advancement

4. Uniform

 

For specific information a good local resource would be a member of the local training team or commissioning staff. Both should have ample knowledge of the resources available to learn about these policies.

[Kahuna]

There are a lot more rules than can be grouped into those four categories. F'rinstance: fundraising, travel (eg, tour permits and international letters of introduction). For what it's worth, I find commissioners and trainers notoriously unreliable sources of black letter rules. They certainly can help the unskilled newbies to stear a safe course, but when you get to the questions more experienced Scouters have, such as in the previously referenced thread, they mostly have opinions. Better sources are the ones contained in handbooks as well as those referenced by Eamonn.

 

BTW, would somebody clue me as to what G2SS is? I have not come across that acronymn.

[evmori]

Guide to Safe Scouting (G2SS)

 

So rules and guidelines are the same thing? If so, why the different names? If not, what's the difference?

 

I don't think they are the same. Rules are to be followed. Guidelines are suggestions. Follow them or don't follow them.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SR540Beaver]

Kahuna,

 

G2SS is shorthand for Guide to Safe Scouting.