Changing attitudes

[CNYScouter]

I first have to say thats to all for you out there as this forum has been very useful and your responses have been extremely helpful.

 

So, I have another issue I would like your help with:

 

We have our yearly planning session coming up and I am looking for ways to counter the scouts are too busy with other activities attitude.

What I mean by this is it seems that this is the excuse I get every time I question why the troop is or is not doing something.

Examples:

The reason we are doing MBs at troop meetings is because the scouts are too busy with other activities to be doing them at another time.

The reason the adults plan all the meals for camping trips is because the scouts are too busy with other activities to do this.

The reason the Troop has a SPL and 2 ASPLs is because the scouts are too busy with other activities so we need 2 ASPLs

The reason none of these 3 have not gone on the last 3 camping trips is because they were too busy with other activities and they couldnt make it.

When I joined this new troop the meetings seemed to be pretty well planned but the last 4 meetings the boys have just played football or Frisbee the whole time.

The reason, because the scouts are too busy with other activities to have planned the meetings. The patrols that were scheduled to do the activities did not plan anything so the troop just played a game.

Last week the SPL was in charge of getting the Troops float ready for the Memorial Day parade but he didnt come to the meeting. Neither did either ASPL. The reason was they are too busy with other activities to come.

This will not be brought up at the PLC meeting as they are finished having them for the year. PLC meetings are only help every other month because the scouts are too busy with other activities to have them more often

This didnt just happen with our new troop. The troop we just left also used this as why we did MBs in Troop meetings and even why we only did popcorn as a fundraiser - scouts are too busy with other activities to spend more time fundraising instead for doing scouting things. The Troop we just left didnt even do a troop service project because scouts are too busy with other activities to attend.

I could go on and on with examples.

I do understand that kids today are often involved with many other activities but it seems adults are using this as an excuse not to have things well planned out or reasons to let the program slide in teaching the Aims of scouting.

One thing that I have to say is that I have talked with the leaders of the more successful programs

 

Any suggestions on changing other leaders attitude about this?

 

CNYScouter

 

 

 

[CA_Scouter]

In our troop, the adult leaders plan most of the weekely activities, then leave it to the scouts to execute the plan. That's contrary to a lot of people's opinions on this forum, but that's what works well for us. The Scouts will assist and help plan the skill bases with the assigned ASM, and we've taught the scouts how to plan for their outings ( food, equipment ), which they handle in patrol meeting time every week.

 

We follow the basic meeting plan as outlined in the various training materials BSA provides, and we set a timed schedule which our SPL follows.

 

It sounds like your adult leaders are expecting the boys to plan the whole thing, but without their guidance. Perhaps have you had a change in Scout leadership lately? Do they now know how to execute a meeting plan? Maybe they just need a lot of adult guidance to get started, then they can take over ( that is our plan ).

 

Kinda like teaching your kid to ride a bike... you run along with 'em for a while, then you let them go.. they may wobble it a bit and even fall once or twice, but eventually they get it.

 

It also sounds like you need some higher energy adult leaders to get these guys going.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

 

[Eagledad]

Hi all

 

Without getting into who plans what and what boy run means or what adult run means, I think your troop is in a rut and has become stale and it can happens to us all.

 

A couple things to understand about a boy run program is that it must always be changing to be challenging. I remember once when an ASM and I watched our Troop break camp, load the trailer and standing formation ready to load the cars all in 45 minutes. It was then we started planning a new kink to throw in the works. The scouts had advanced and grown up to that challenge.

 

Each scout is different and needs constant challenges thrown at him to maintain growth and FUN from the struggles. A lot of adults are afraid of struggles, but how many times have you heard scouts brag most about they times they were challenged the most. Like forgetting food or dealing with rain.

 

The other part of your problem is we adults MUST keep the troop a program of the boys Dreams. The remarkable thing about boys is their dreams. The most difficult challenge for me as a SM was trying to make our Troop a place where dreams can come true. You want a boy to come to meetings, allow him to, No make him give ideas for activities from his dreams. One example was a few of our guys heard about Night Camporees. So the planned a campout where the patrols competed in a dozen scout skills all night under the Star Wars theme. The enjoyed that so much that they did it again next year and invited three other troops. That was about eight years ago and one of those troops now runs their District Camporee. Dreams of a night program and dreams of Star Wars resulted in to hundreds of scouts wanting to be part of their program. A program of dreams.

 

I hope this joggles something to help you guys.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[LPC_Thumper]

Too busy to do scouts? Well here is what we do...

 

We have 2 ASPLs, this started when one boy (whose parents are divorced) was voted in as the SPL, and knew he was going to have to spend many long weekends, and in fact would miss summer camp because his absent parent insisted on their parental rights, and would not allow this scout to attend outings. He was smart enough to ask for a second ASPL rather than hang his only ASPL out. It worked. Then with our troop of 50 scouts, it just got easier to have these three run the meetings.

 

We have had California state champions in individual sports (things like cross country, tennis, and golf) come to scouts late (in their sports clothes) uniform drapped over their arm, and head for the bathroom. 5 minutes later, there are the scouts we know and love. We've had SPLs that played team sports (like football, basketball, baseball, and water polo) show up and do the same thing. In fact we have one coach from our High School, beg the SM to please tell a scout that he was needed on a team, rather than scouts.

 

Too busy? We've had scouts that score perfect SATs, that are at Service Acadamy's, heck one of "our" boys has a full ride to an Ivy League School. Too busy? Nope... bored, not involved, not their program? I'll let you decide that one.

 

Boys will always rise to the level you want them to rise to. They will decide what matters. If you don't allow them to run a meeting, then they are too busy. If you fall into ruts then they are too busy. If on the other hand you convince them that they can do what ever they want, and then hold on while they do it, you'll be amazed. We took a group of "jocks" and "brains" to Northern Tier. They BOTH loved it, they sit around now that they are out of scouts, and talk about the good old days when it rained, and they ate cold oatmeal since they couldn't get their stoves to light. They show up and say "Hi".

 

Now when I said they can do anything, they knew that we would look at their ideas and as long as they weren't disallowed in G2SS, then we'd let them go for it. Notice I didn't say "we'd do it for them." They as a troop raised THOUSANDS of dollars to take trips, because they found out that there were 3 National High Adventure Bases, and they wanted to do them all. Which they did. As adults we just held on for dear life. They as the leaders of our troop, lead. Were they busy? You bet! Were we proud? You bet! Is it happening now? After a years rest, we're gearing up again!

[CNYScouter]

I have to add that the other leaders see nothing wrong with this situation. They just let things go chalking it up to "kids are just busy".

 

IMHO, I think one of the Troops problems is that a PLC is held every 2 months. I have yet to see the SM or another adult leader check follow up to see if the patrol has next weeks meeting ready. The farther from the last PLC the more disorganized it seems to be. I tried to talk with the SM about this and was told that because the scouts were so busy with outside things they didnt have tome to meet more frequently. He also said that the problem was not that the meetings were too far apart but the boys couldnt stay focused between meetings to get things done.

 

I also know that there are very few adults in this troop that were involved with Scouts as a youth. We are new to this troop and before I joined they had only 2 leader with any prior Boy Scout experience with one of these being a former member of this troop and just turned 21.

 

From what I have been told the previous SM didnt even require the scouts to wear a uniform and most Troop meeting were spent playing football or another game the entire time.

 

I want to try to institute some type of patrol competitions or an honor patrol for next year.

 

Eagledad do you have any more information about the Night Camp-o-ree. This sounds like a great idea. What type of things do you do and what are some of the events that are run?

 

[Bob White]

Changing attitudes and behavior in adults who see no need to change or have no interest in change is pretty much impossible. Childrens attitudes and opinions are far easier to shape than an adult's.

 

A good example would be a scoutmaster in a failing program is far more likely to look for excuses in the scouts, the parents, the program, the uniform, politics, just about anything before he will even consider that it might be his behavior that is causing the problem.

 

So I am sorry to say that you have a long road to travel before you can change other adults.

 

On the bright side, you seem to have a very good grasp on how things should be done in a scout program. Often times in our lives the best thing we can do is to do the best thing we can do. I am hopeful that by other adults watching you and the successes you will have by following the BSA program, that you can begin to instigate the willingness to change within them.

 

Good Luck,

BW

 

 

[Eamonn]

Barry without wanting to seem argumentative I don't think you can brush to one side Who plans what and who does what.

Announcing that the next PLC meeting will be the Annual Planning Meeting, is fine and dandy. But we need to remember that part of the Patrol Leaders job at the PLC is representing the group. Before we start making the plan we need to know what the Scouts want to do. We are of course never going to please each and every Scout. But if they feel they have ownership of what they are doing they are going to want to participate.

The more they are involved with doing things the more they are lightly to participate. I very much doubt if the Grub-master who is in charge of getting the food is going to not attend.

The rut becomes a rut when we the adults stop listening to the Scouts. I have visited Troop meetings where the Scouts have been complaining that the District Camporee is not their cup of tea, but the Adults go ahead anyway and then they complain that the Scouts aren't attending.

I like the idea of us making dreams come through. But the dreams must be the dreams that come from the Scouts.

Sure our Scouts and their parents are busy and school and home activities do at times get in the way of what the troop is doing, but we plan our programs for the Scouts that are there we hope that they will see their dreams come through and that their enthusiasms will rub off on those who missed the activity.

We work with our SPL and PL's, helping and supporting them, but at the same time making them accountable for getting the job done. Sure the easy way is to say that this isn't working and then allow the adults to take over, but that isn't Scouting.

Eamonn

[Bob White]

One of the reasons that scouts are doing 'other things" is that they are not being allowed to do the things in scouts they should be doing, so they find other things to occupy their energies.

 

In a few cases where the adults do too much the problem is inexperience on the part of the leaders, in most cases I have seen it's just the adults enjoying being "in charge" of "their troop".

 

The less the leaders 'do' the more time they have to lead.

 

 

[evmori]

Sounds like over scheduling to me. Johnny wants to play football, be on the chess team, join Scouts, take piano lessons & work on his programming skills! Plus go to school & do his normal everyday chores AND have free time with his buddies! Something is gonna suffer! And mom & dad should see this & explain to Johnny he is over scheduled & needs to decide what he really wants to do! The best Troop/Pack in the world won't make a difference if Johnny doesn't realize he can't do it all!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

School

Schoolwork

Housework

Sunday School

Little League Baseball

Soccer

Track

String Bass lessons

Piano lessons

Drums lessons

Jazz Band

Pep Band

Percussion Ensemble

Church Youth Ensemble

Drama Club Stage Crew

Outdoor Adventure Club

rock climbing

rocketry

remote control cars and boats

Dating

Driving

Work

Model railroading

 

This are just some of the things my son has done and still does while a scout. As a scout even with all these other activities he has served actively as Patrol Leader, ASPL, SPL, QM, and now Yoeman on a Sea Scout Ship. Some of the offices he has done more than once.

 

He is not what you would call an exception, he's just a kid. He has this huge world around him and he wants to see what different things are about. The things he like he does more often and with greater energy than things he doesn't like. That's just how kids are, thats how most adults are too.

 

As scout leaders we need to make scouting one of the things they like. If they are doing other things more than scouting...guess what....

 

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>I like the idea of us making dreams come through. But the dreams must be the dreams that come from the Scouts.

[evmori]

On thing some a failing to take into account is we are involved in the BSA. Most of the parents who say "scouts are too busy with other activities" aren't & see Scouts as just "another activity".

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

We have no need to present further evidence your honor, we rest our case.

 

 

[evmori]

Well, that was fun! What's next?

[SeattlePioneer]

 

The troop I am a part of has a Scoutmaster who can't and doesn't plan things. No PLC meeting had been held in the year or so since he became Scoutmaster.

 

However, he was happy to have me plan almost anything. So I encouraged the SPL to schedule a PLC meeting and backed that up by offering to let the boys cook a babeque that I would plan and support, and they would cook.

 

That worked fine, with both patrols represented, although the SM didn't attend due to conflicts with work.

 

The next month, the SPL scheduled the PLC and I offered to bring a blackberry pie as a snack, with the ice cream suggested by the SPL.

 

At that PLC, only the PL and APL of one of the patrols showed up, along with an ASM and myself --no SM, no SPL. The two Scouts did a creditable job of laying out outings and monthly themes through August.

 

The next PLC scheduled by the SPL was cancelled due to the illness of the Scoutmaster, whose home was going to be the location of the PLC.

 

That was nearly a month ago. No PLC meetings are scheduled. Back to having adults plan meetings and activities by default.

 

At present I am occupied doing recruiting and membership work for both the Troop, a Cub Pack and the District. I don't have time to be Scoutmaster too.

 

I've pitched the Troop Committee Chair and an ASM on the idea of being SM, but they beg off.

 

Makes it tough.

 

 

Seattle Pioneer