"getting rid" of a family

[jenniferden8]

I am looking for guidance and experiance...

We have a family in our pack in which the boy was caught "intimatly" with his cousin, later he was caught trying to touch a three year old. Both happened outside of scouts. This past weekend his teenaged sister made inappropriate comments to a 40 year old man, was caught making out with a teenager. this happened on scout time on a camping trip. When the father found out(at 3am) he started screaming and could be heard across the campground. we approched first our unit commishioner, then our DE. we want the family removed. but our fear is first, them joining another pack who doesn't know to be weary. and second the mother is a registered leader, with a criminal record for violence and we fear retribution....is there anything we can do to get our council to handle this situation?

[Prairie_Scouter]

Well, I guess I've got a couple of questions.

 

First, what were all these people doing on a cub scout campout? Was it a family campout?

 

Second, how did a leader with a record of criminal violence get past the background check, as superficial as it is?

 

I think, basically, you've got a youth protection problem that needs to be reported to your district and council.

 

You've got a Scout that's been caught, reportedly, doing inappropriate things outside of Scouts. I'm not sure how YP will deal with that exactly. Normally, you're dealing with things that happen within the context of Scouts, but if you know you've got a problem there, I think you should still report it. What did your UC and DE say?

 

You didn't mention your position in the pack, but one thing that needs to be considered is to talk to the parents and tell them that what happened on the campout was inappropriate behavior for a Scout campout for the both the daughter and the father.

 

Final thought. You don't have to deal with this on your own. You have professional Scouters who can assist you, and take over the situation if need be. You're a volunteer leader; it's time to make use of the "big guns". You always hate to lose a Scout, and maybe the professionals can figure out a way to work it out, but in a YP situation, you don't want to be making those decisions, especially if what you've got is heresay. Since it happened outside of Scouts, I'd expect the professional Scouters will want more information.

 

My 2 cents.

[jenniferden8]

This month i am still a wolf DL, however our cubmaster retired and at the committee meeting next week I belive i will be voted in as cubmaster.

We had a family campout for graduation.

Our UC told us that a committee we can vote the family out, but first we fear retribution, and second we don't want them to join another pack, passing on this family we feel needs help. we have contacted our DE and he has not yet gotten back to us.

What we want is for the "big guns" to get involved and handle it, but we feel like they don't want to.

[AnneinMpls]

Also to be considered..

Depending on the laws of your state, you might be what's called in this state a "mandated reporter", meaning that due to your position of responsibility you might be required to report to child protection authorities any clear suspicion of child abuse or endangerment or neglect. Please note that these laws vary considerably from one state to another. These acting-out youngsters might be youngsters at risk, ie precocious sexuality can be related to that child having experienced sexual abuse. Definitely get the professional scouters involved and don't just let the UC (who is like yourself "just a volunteer") put it back on you volunteers to try to sort this one out.

Peace,

Anne in Mpls

[ScoutNut]

Family campouts are a fine thing.

 

Who was the teenage boy the teenage sister was caught making out with? Did she bring her boyfriend along? Was he a big brother of a Cub? It takes 2 to tango as the saying goes & he should have been brought to task also.

 

The 3am screaming should have been handled at 3am by the person in charge of the campout (BALOO trained individual). The father, daughter, & stray teenage boy should have all been talked to at that time.

 

If the mother does have a criminal record she would never have passed National's background check. That leads me to believe she was never convicted of anything. Why did your Charter Organization Rep (COR) accept her application?

 

As for the Cub Scout, if he was caught, on 2 different occasions, being "intimate" with other children, why was nothing done by the parents of the children? How do you know for sure this even really happened? You can not judge this child by the actions of his family and gossip. All you can do is to make sure you are following YP guidelines at every step & keep a close eye on him.

 

Your UC is correct, it is the responsibilty of the COR, along with the CC (Committee Chair) & the Committee to provide capable leadership for the unit, while it is the Cubmaster (CM) who approves youth membership. A CO can not be forced to accept, or keep, the membership of any youth or adult.

 

Your Committee & CO can ask the family to leave the Pack, but they can do nothing to stop them from joining another one. Unless the council, & National, can somehow manage to be convinced to withdraw the whole families BSA membership completly. This is what it sounds like you would like to happen.

 

I think you should wait and see what your DE has to say on the matter.

 

[Prairie_Scouter]

Main thing is, I think, that this sounds like it's outside what a volunteer leader can be expected to handle. You want to have the Scout Professional advise you on this, and possibly take over the situation for you.

[frogger921]

I am the CC for this Pack w/the problem.This leader came to me the night she found out and told me what had happened.He had also been molested when he was younger by another child.I spoke to her about getting help for him and she blew me off. DCF was contacted as well as a police report filed to get this child help.As far as the camping trip is concerned, the parents of both children were spoken to but it was more of the reaction that happened as to why everyone is upset. The UC is well aware of the issues, and we were advised to contact our DE. I have spoken w/him as well as a written letter. Still no response. As far as the criminal record, she caught her husband (ex now) in bed w/her best friend. She went after the best friend and was arrested and charged w/assault. We let her through because another leader who had been w/us for 3 years lives two doors down and was friends w/her. Unfortunately there was more to her story then any of us knew. Basically YP protects children when an incident happens inside BSA, however my job as a leader and parent is to protect all children with me and I cannot due to this problem. I have been told by our UC that council will more than likely not step in........... there is our dilema.

[evmori]

Easy. Tell this family they are no longer welcome. Give them their registration fees back. Contact your CO & get them up to speed. Have the CO write a letter to your DE & Council to have their membership revoked. Request your DE advise all the other units in your district about this family. This can be done via Roundtable.

 

Good luck. I'll keep your unit in my prayers.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Prairie_Scouter]

I agree with Ed that if you haven't already contacted your CO, you should do so and get them involved as well. But, your Scout Professional should be supporting you on this; that's one of the things that they get paid for. If your UC is telling you that they won't, you should go "up the chain". Like I said earlier, volunteer leaders aren't expected to handle these kinds of situations on their own. I haven't been in your exact situation, but I have had an experience where we had to ask a family who's Scout was a behavior problem to leave the unit; it's not easy. But, you can't let your other Scouts be at risk, so you do need to get this taken care of.

 

Now, let me play devil's advocate for just a second, just to make sure the bases are being covered. Is this the first time your unit has had a problem with this family? If the proper reporting has been done for YP, then another approach might be to sit down with the parents and explain the BSA perspective on this. You could tell them that Scouting might be a good thing for their son, and consider if there's any way that they can continue with the pack in some controlled capacity. I'm, of course, not close enough to the situation to see if this is even feasible, but it should be a part of your thinking.

 

You know, as I'm thinking about this, if you contacted your district/council about the YP problem, they should be coming back to you with some sort of opinions on "next steps". Have they done that?

[eagle90]

I would contact my DE and SE directly and camp on their doorstep until I received a satisfactory answer. Then I would make sure that useless Unit Commissioner is sent to more training in what his job is. It isn't to act as a shield for the professionals. This seems to be much too much for a volunteer to be expected to handle.

[SemperParatus]

I was in a very similar situation years ago. Inherited a very disruptive family, past criminal problems, foul language in front of scouts, etc. The boy was constantly picking fights with other scouts. The parents refused to hear that their son was causing problems from the DL and myself (CM). The council professionals and district volunteers ignored our pleas for help for over five months. Finally, I was charged by the committee with telling this family they had to leave (exactly as Ed suggests). The father became very belligerent and threatened physical violence. He continued to bring the boy to pack meetings and stood over him daring anyone to say anything. The first night, nothing was said. The second night, after the meeting the CC and I approached this parent to discuss this matter. The father began pushing us and was ready to begin an 'all-out' brawl until he realized that he was outnumbered with the arrival of other den leaders. After that, we did not see him again. Although, I still run in to him occassionally around town, where we generally try to ignore each other. It was a very trying and emotional time for me and my family, as I am sure it was for the other families involved.

 

Lessons learned:

 

1. Seek the help of the professional scouters first (right on up to the Council Scout Executive). I am sure there are some that will help. In our case, we had a very weak DE and SE that chose to treat this as a 'pack' problem and not worthy of their time.

2. If you get no response from your professionals within a reasonable period of time (e.g., 2 weeks) then act quickly.

3. Do as Ed Mori suggests. Some confrontation is inevitable and if your professionals are not willing then you as a volunteer must do it to protect your program and scouts.

4. You cannot control how this family will react. They may simply go away or they may cause even more trouble. Try and have all conversations with plenty of witnesses around. If they threaten violence then it will be a perfect opportunity to kindly inform them that their threat will be reported to the local police.

 

Good luck.

[frogger921]

This was the first year for this family into our pack. We have already discussed with them about better supervision of their child but it is not being done. The leaders are watching this kid to avoid any potential issues until we hear back from council. I like the camping out on the doorstep idea! The problem with our CO is that they are never involved regardless of what we try to do. There has been a number of times where we tried to set up a meeting between the CO, DE, UC & myself to discuss what a CO's responsibilities are towards us and ours towards them. They refused to meet with us. - That's a whole other topic discussion...... Thank you for all of this great advice, it's nice to hear that we are not expected to handle this situation alone as previously thought. This problem has been wearing on me for the last week.

[cajuncody]

Frogger921 wrote: " We let her through because another leader who had been w/us for 3 years lives two doors down and was friends w/her. Unfortunately there was more to her story then any of us knew. "

 

I don't quite get this. How can you have let her through? I didn't think that background checks were done at the pack level and I don't think that National would let you second guess their background check. Is this a registered leader?

Kristi

[frogger921]

Yes she is a registered assistant leader. The leader application was signed off by our then Cubmaster and I believe the UC. It stated on her application, where they ask if you have a criminal record, the charges and reasons. The application was sent down to Council and we heard nothing from them as to it being a problem. She was listed on our re-charter info as being a leader so apparently council thought nothing of it. Hind sight is unfortunately 20/20 but the child is most of the issue. My thoughts are that council needs to get involved to remove the child and family. Maybe flag this child & mother's name to not accept them into any other pack without disclosing the reasons why due to confidentiality. I know that our pack is going to end up having to take care of this, but we still need council to back this up in regards to not letting this child be in another pack with other children. Unfortunately I am learning that our Council is laid back to the point of laziness.

[Trevorum]

Excellent advice from Ed, Semper and others. A tough situation made worse by weak professionals. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.