Girl Scouts Vs Boy Scouts

[SeattlePioneer]

What are the relative advantages and disadvantages of the Girl Scout vs Boy Scout programs, if you are familiar with them?

 

Should, or will, the two organizations merge?

 

 

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[SemperParatus]

I'm pretty familiar with both (from a volunteer/parent point of view). They are both great programs and serve our children well in providing an organized activity that gives them a greater appreciation for the world around them and their role in it.

 

Here are some things I have noticed:

 

Girl Scout Advantages -

1. Particularly at the younger ages, it provides a strong sense of community involvement and personal responsibility.

2. It promotes thoughtful creativity in much of the badge work and events like 'Thinking Day'.

3. The cookies can't be beat (especially Thin Mints).

 

Girl Scout Disadvantages -

1. Troops are basically single-aged and terminate when the girls 'age-out'. There is less of a sense of 'older sisterhood' except for larger cluster/community events.

2. The program for older girls is not as engaging and far too many older girls leave before high school. I don't think the national leadership has a clue as to how to fully engage 13-15 year old girls, making the troop leader's job that much harder.

3. The advancement programs/requirements seem to change more frequently creating confusion and a sense of inconsistency.

4. High adventure opportunities at the national level are available but are very very limited and expensive.

5. National seems to lean on the liberal side, which trickles down to the girls through advancement and other literature.

 

Boy Scout Advantages -

1. The program gets better and more engaging as the boys get older, especially in the area of leadership development and high adventure.

2. Troop perpetuity adds a sense of history and tradition, while mixed-age troops/packs offer a stronger feeling of 'big brothers' setting an example.

3. Packs and troops are typically larger and able to involve more adults (den leaders, ASMs, committee members, etc.) and youth that can add depth to the organization and the program it can offer.

4. Boy scout facilities (scout camps) are an incredibly valuable resource.

5. Program resources and training is exceptional.

 

Boy Scout Disadvantages -

1. The Tiger Cub program still needs some work to capture the boy and adult and hook them on scouting. Too many packs still do not dedicate the time and attention that is needed to make a great first impression.

2. The advancement focus tends to overwhelm the entire program and all that it can offer (witness scouts spending all day at merit badge classes during summer camp, the 'eagle mills', etc.).

3. Whereas GS USA tends to change with the direction of the wind, BSA is very slow to adjust to a changing word.

 

Merger? I guess it could happen, but probably not for many years. I think the impetus of a possible merger would probably be 'business' related (e.g., one of the organizatons can no longer support themselves and needs a bailout) rather than out of a sense of creating a new and improved 'scouting model'

 

[ScoutNut]

Comparing GSUSA & BSA is like comparing a Mackintosh apple to a pineapple. They both have "apple" in their name, but that's about it.

 

They are 2 completely different programs, set up completely differently and aimed at 2 completely different groups.

 

Will they merge? Not anytime soon or even in the forseeable future. GSUSA National has made that perfectly clear.

 

Should they merge? There have been a number of discussions on that topic in these forums. The most recent of which is still going on in "Eventual Co-Ed Scouting" under Issues & Politics. I would suggest posting there.

 

 

 

 

[Its Me]

SemperParatus, summed up the difference quite well.

 

I don't think they will merge; there are too many differences in chartering and organizational philosophy.

 

I do think co-ed scouting is near, ~20 years or so.

 

 

[sitrep]

If the girls scouts put half the effort they put into their program that they put into their cookies then they would be quite something.

 

For the most part I think the BSA is just fine they way it is and hope it doesn't change. If the BSA does we might as well be learning for life.

[KoreaScouter]

I've got one of each in the house, and the one difference that I just don't understand is how GS Troops handle their money. In three different GS Councils, my daughter's Troops have had to zero out their balance at the end of each May. They spend the money raised mostly by cookie sales from people who thought it was going for program support, for trinkets and presents for the girls, just to get rid of the $$. Then, in the fall, they're broke again until the cookie money comes in months later. Nobody has ever been able to tell me why they don't just carry it forward and use it for what it was intended for.

 

I shudder to think how we'd manage in BSA if we had to do the same thing...

 

KS

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Korea - Tell your daughter's leaders to put on their end of year financial report that they are carrying over $XX for reason YYY. That's should be all that is necessary.

 

Councils do this because they don't want the money to be stockpiled. A GS troop is not a money making operation or a savings vehicle. There are some out there who would have large bank balances, getting bigger each year, & spend minimal on the girls. Councils just want to make sure the money is being used by/for the girls who earned it.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Seattle - Do you have a daughter who is considering joining Girl Scouts?

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello, Scout Nut!

 

 

No, as a 55 year old bachelor, I have no children of my own.

 

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[KoreaScouter]

I understand that from an accounting standpoint, it's easy enough to do. This is a human factor problem, in my experience. To carry the funds forward means that somebody next year, who didn't earn the money in the Troop this year, will benefit from someone else's fund raising efforts when they move up a level in the program. I've tried to explain till blue-faced, that if all Troops in a service unit carried forward, it would be a wash. I might as well be speaking Sanskrit, because while it makes sense, nobody wants to be the first to have to do it.

 

Speaking of building balances, if GS service units set Troop cookie sale goals based on program delivery cost estimates, there would be two near-immediate results. One, there shouldn't be huge surpluses at the end of a GS "year" that leaders squander on trinkets just to get rid of it -- unless it's understood that balances carry forward for program delivery in the fall. Two, the cookie sale won't be the dominant, over-arching activity for the year. Again, just a sample of three, but in all the GS councils we've been in, the drive was "sell all we can, and we'll figure out what to spend it on later".

 

KS

[ScoutNut]

It sounds like the Service Units that you have been in are run a bit differently than any of the ones I know of.

 

Most troops stay together and move up levels as a group. So, while you may loose or gain some girls, the majority of the girls in the troop are the same as the ones from the previous year.

 

The money earned during any money earning activity goes, not to the individual, but to the entire troop. This money is used to pay for everything the troop does and everything the troop needs to purchase (awards, supplies, etc).

 

At the end of every school year (June 15) each troop has to fill out a financial report to give to their council. In this report they have to show all incoming money and list all expenses incurred since their last report. On our financial reports there is a section that asks what plans the girls have for the remaining balance and that's it. If the balance is very large council might question why. Usually the only reason for carrying over a large balance is if the girls are saving for a trip.

 

I looked on your council's website and noticed that the financial report form used by Girl Scouts-Hawaii Council doesn't even ask about the girl's plans. Aside from income & expenses all it asks for is the amount of cash on hand as of June 15. This being the case, I am not sure why you have had such problems with your troop carrying a balance in their account.

 

I can understand why your suggestion for the Service Units to set the sales goals for their troops was not acted on. That is against GSUSA program goals. Basically not their job. The cookie sale, besides being a major money earner for both troop & council, is a Girl Scout PROGRAM activity. The girls (from 1st grade thru 12th grade) are the ones who should be setting the sales goals for their troop. They should decide what they want to do during the year, find out how much it will cost, add in regular troop operating costs & then figure out how many boxes of cookies the troop (and each girl) will need to sell to achieve this.

 

From 1st grade the girls should be learning about budgets, short term & long term planning, finances, goal setting, taking responsibility for their troop, marketing, public speaking, and much more. It has NEVER been about JUST selling cookies.

 

[KoreaScouter]

ScoutNut;

 

All the councils we've been with have had a substantial military population; more transfers than those you've been associated with, probably.

 

I understand the proceeds go to the Troop. My point is that so far at least (again, three councils and 7 Troops), there has been no linkage between program planning and money earning.

 

Individual councils may not care whether Troops carry forward or not, but as you know, GSUSA uses a less centralized oversight model; service units and the Troop leaders have much more autonomy than BSA units within a District and Council. Moreover, there's no committee with a chair, CO, or some comparable entity to rule on carry forwards (or anything else for that matter). For some time, I thought a service unit was comparable to a committee, but I've been set straight more than once.

 

Of course, the Troops should set their cookie sale goals based on their program goals -- I didn't mean to imply that they shoud be downward directed like a Soviet collective farm. My point was that the program goal should precede the cookie sale goal.

 

I know there are program tie-ins with the cookie sale, just as there are with BSA and the popcorn campaign each year. As my daughter moves from Juniors to Cadets next fall, I'm only hoping that her Cadet Troop resembles the model you describe, rather than having a plan spoon-fed to them, sell cookies like galley slaves, then blow the money come summertime.

 

KS

[ScoutMomAng]

Being a leader for both the cub scouts and the girl scouts I will have to say that Semper hit the nail on the head with his discription.

 

I don't think the two will EVER merge. And I think the GSUSA might want to take a look at the Boy Scouts and how often they have changed their policies, programs, and advancement requirements and think about not changing around so often.

 

It seems, at least in our council, the GS is a fly by the seat of your pants operation. It seems too many people aren't sure of how things are supposed to be or where they are going, or what is going on. Too many cooks in the kitchen.

 

Will their ever be co-ed scouting??? hmmmm...that is tough to say...I see the BSA is leaning toward it in some instances with their Venturing programs but complete co-ed?? I dont' think it will ever happen with the GS, becuase anytime it is mentioned, "The BSA does it like this..." the response given back is, "we are not the BSA" Even if it is a good policy or whatever...just because the boys do it the girls aren't going to. That is just from what I get in my area.

 

Ang

[acco40]

Girl Scouts don't need a PFD to fish on the dock!

 

Boy Scouts don't need a certified lifeguard to fish on the docks.