SM issue violation of YP and more

[eaglescout2004]

The CC and the SM are very close.

I did not want to report this to the CC for fear that the SM would hear and I would have repricussions. One problem that my troop has is that several scoutmasters serve on the commitee.

On earlier trips when a question of YP came up, the committee has said,"Well he's the SM, he knows what he is doing, and we trust his judgement" (he spent 6+ hours along with an ill scout in camp)

[Hunt]

I don't think it is a violation of YP for a SM to have a conversation with a Scout that nobody else can hear. How could you have a Scoutmaster Conference otherwise? The idea is that they should be visible to others so no improper behavior can occur. I agree that unless this is part of a pattern of YP violations, the YP part of this is really a side issue.

[Bob White]

There is no such thing as a minor YP violation. It is either a violation or it isn't. This was.

[EagleInKY]

"The CC and the SM are very close."

 

Of course they are... or at least they should be. For the good of the troop, these are two positions that need to able to work together. I'm close to my CC as well. However, he'll certainly bring concerns up to me when they arise. We were once critized for having a good relationship. I asked the people who brought the criticism up if they could point to one occasion where the CC ignored a concern because of this relationship. We haven't heard that criticism any more.

 

"I did not want to report this to the CC for fear that the SM would hear and I would have repricussions."

 

Reporting to council will have even more.

 

"On earlier trips when a question of YP came up, the committee has said,"Well he's the SM, he knows what he is doing, and we trust his judgement" "

 

Sounds like the committee needs YPT as well.

 

"(he spent 6+ hours along with an ill scout in camp)"

 

Again, sounds like a bad judgement call on the part of the SM. I called one of our adults on the carpet for a similar situation at SC a couple of years ago. To this day, he still disagrees with me, but he hasn't done it again.

[eaglescout2004]

The YP is a side thing but it does concern me. I have been YPT and know what is/is not allowed.

 

My letter to council was not an "this is a bad scoutmaster"letter. I know many of the professionals at my council very well and sent the letter to request advice on the scoutbucks issue and only mentioned the YP violation.

[cajuncody]

Eaglescout2004,

Since noone else will I will offer you my support in your decision. We all work here to try and give our young men the tools to make their own decisions. If you are happy with the decision you made I support you 100%. The SM was in the wrong to be one on one with you in a back room and obviously this made you uncomfortable. He knew better. If (when my son ages a little) my son did the same I would not tell him he was wrong. What you did was to stand up for your self in a non confrontational way. And you reported the problem. A lot of our youth today would have just kept it to themselves. No adult leader (or youth leader for that matter) should put a scout in a situation that makes them feel uncomfortable.

Kristi

[eaglescout2004]

Thank you all for your support, encouragement, advice and other comments. Hopefully this situation will be handled so that similar issues in my troop will not arise.

I still am convinced that sharing the scout's contact info was the right thing to do and that the SM violated YP rules. I probably should not have reported to council, but I will see what turns up.

[Hunt]

I think he was uncomfortable because the SM was chewing him out. Would he have been less uncomfortable if others had been able to see them, but not hear what they were saying? I understand that there is no such thing as a "minor" YP violation, but surely some violations are more serious than others. I got the feeling from the original posting that the YP point was being used to beat up the SM over other issues. We were then told that there were previous YP violations. If that's true, it does put a different light on the issue. But the YP violation here did not result in the problem the YP provisions are intended to prevent--there was no abuse--there was a one-on-one conversation that the Scout didn't like--and YP doesn't prohibit that.

[FScouter]

Was the boy uncomfortable because he was being lectured, or because of one-on-one?

 

The child abuse pamphlet in the front of the Boy Scout handbook advises a boy to run away, scream, and make a scene. Not write a letter to the council.

 

From what we've heard here, no child abuse has taken place. A violation of a prevention rule does not equate to a reportable case of child abuse. We're taught in YP training that abuse or suspected abuse must be reported. There is no mention of reporting infractions of the rules.

 

A mention of this to any other adult in the troop would seem to be an appropriate response.

[Lynda J]

YP is very specific. You as an adult are not to be alone with a scout where you are not in full view of another scout or adult. YEs. Should it happen. NO.

If we have an issue with a scout that needs to be discussed out of ear shot of other scouts. The SM and another adult go into a side room and discuss what happen. Does it happen once in a while in all troops.

There is no MINOR YP violation. This is clearly a violation. The SM IS WRONG.

 

We do SMC at a table away from the other scouts. The SM and the scout are in full view of everyone. But guess what they aren't hears because they aren't yelling. It isn't a sceret meeting.

 

I have one problem. ASM's as Committee Members. Not in our troop.

 

If you continue to have problems with this SM my suggestin would be to find another troop. After a while if this guy is yelling at kid a lot the troop will begin to die off.

 

 

One question I have. How many of the ASMs are trained in both Scout Master Basic, Essentials, and Specific? They should all have that training.

All our ASMs do. It is required by our CO.

 

[NJCubScouter]

The problem with Scoutmaster Conferences under the YP guidelines is that while on one hand you want it to be a "private" conversation, without other people tromping by (or through), possibly interrupting, potentially listening, or the Scout becoming self-conscious because others MIGHT be listening, etc. etc., it cannot be completely private because that violates the one-on-one rule. I suppose that some troops' meeting layout will solve this problem, because there will be places where two people can talk in full view of everybody, but uninterrupted and un-eavesdropped upon.

 

My son's troop really does not have that, however, and I have seen our SM become somewhat frustrated about where to have these conferences. He can do them in one of two ways. The first is to have the conference in the "adult room" which at one time was either a small classroom and/or phys ed teacher's office, which is off the gym where the troop meeting takes place. During troop meetings the adults not actually taking part in the troop meeting congregate in this room, but boys often enter to get equipment (the closet also is in this room), show their books to the advancement records coordinator who enters their advancements into the computer, pay for trips or hand in permission slips, meet with their Eagle advisor, or whatever. This is a small room, essentially a long "meeting table" and just enough room on either side to get to or from a chair. As a result, trying to have a SM conference in this room is often an exercise in futility; although it complies with the one-on-one rule, it is so not one-on-one that you really can't have a meaningful conversation and certainly not anything approaching a "private" conversation. The second option is to have the conference in an empty classroom, which is completely private, or in the "coat room," which has no door but is basically private, and have a second adult (an ASM) sitting in. Obviously this is not ideal either, because with 2 adults the meeting starts to look suspiciously like a Board of Review. But given our physical setup, it is the better option and that is what our SM has been tending to do recently.

[Hunt]

"Chief, I think we need the Cone of Silence."

[EagleInKY]

Hunt, LOL. I wonder how many are two young to get that one.

 

We have the challenge of where to do SCs as well. I usually take them to the back end of the fellowship hall (which isn't very large) and usually have a few minutes of private conversation. But, I've found as our troop has gotten bigger, that has gone out the window. The last SC I had was interupted four times. Mostly by new scouts or their parents, who aren't aware of the process yet. However, the last one was my wife. She didn't like it when I told her I'd talk to her in a moment. (Made for an interesting discussion at home).

[FScouter]

"But Max, that never works! Oh, all right. Lower the Cone of Silence."

"OK Max, continue."

"WHHAAT?!?"