Learning for Life

[Bob White]

I see this as just another situation where minds have been made up without bothering to gather any actual facts. Learning for Life is not a bad thing, it's just different, and so something you know little about you just assume is bad.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[sitrep]

I read some of the info on the posted web site, thank you very much Bob. FRankly LFL sounds like touchy-feely BS, like BSA lite.

 

 

"Learning for Life is designed to support schools and other youth-serving organizations in their efforts toward preparing youth to successfully handle the complexities of today's society and to enhance their self-confidence, motivation, and self-worth."

[Bob White]

I'm not crazy about the use of BS on a scouting related site but its a good lead in for this. You see teaching young people self confidence, motivation and self worth as a bad thing because .......?

 

They are not scouts and so have no right to those things?

You see those as bad things for a youth to have?

Your afraid that an understanding of such things might develop into a growth in their value system?

 

Where exactly are young people harmed by the goals of LFL?

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[sitrep]

I'm not crazy about the use of BS on a scouting related site but its a good lead in for this. You see teaching young people self confidence, motivation and self worth as a bad thing because .......?

 

They are not scouts and so have no right to those things?

You see those as bad things for a youth to have?

Your afraid that an understanding of such things might develop into a growth in their value system?

 

Where exactly are young people harmed by the goals of LFL?

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

 

Bob:

 

I never said I was against values or teaching them so don't try to put words in my mouth. Atleast read my first post on this subject.

 

BSA does a great job of teaching them. However right now BSA has enough problems recruiting and retaining boys and leaders. The BSA does not need to create competition for itself by trying to do BSA lite. As far as I am concerned, youth can come join the BSA or go someplace else to learn values, the BSA does not need to water itself down to appeal to the masses.(This message has been edited by sitrep)

[Eamonn]

Hi Bob,

I don't question that LFL is a good thing. I have gone into schools and given career talks when asked by our LFL pros.

I just think that if it is separate it should be separate.

Even if this means that we end up shooting ourselves in the foot when we don't receive fundings from other agencies. Who do hand over more money in a year than I will give in 20 years.

Eamonn.

[scoutldr]

Eamonn's posts have set me to thinking. I also thought that LFL was a "separate subsidiary" of BSA. While I knew that there was a "DE" responsible for LFL in the Council office, it never occured to me that we were financially subsidizing it through our FOS, popcorn sales, James E West fellowships, etc. If it is to be a separate program, then shouldn't the finances should be separate, too? Perhaps they are. Perhaps the parents of LFL students/participants/members are charged a fee to cover all materials and the DE's salary. Perhaps the schools pay for it. Perhaps they have their own popcorn sales. Perhaps it is being funded by a federal grant. Perhaps all those little Cub Scouts going door to door selling popcorn are paying for it. I admit I don't have all the facts, but maybe someone who does will enlighten us, in the interest of full disclosure. Then we can all take that into consideration when we fill out our pledge forms next year. I'm not saying it's good nor bad. Just give me more facts, let me decide, then I'll vote with my checkbook, just like the United Way has done.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[Bob White]

The BSA does not finace LFL, it has separate books, separate income, separate payroll. LFL is able to accept government funding, BSA does not, LFL pays for the time spent by professionals in its support, not the BSA. The LFL does not use FOS monies, those are spent only on traditional programs.

 

LFL's major difference is not that its members are different but that it COs are different. LFL exists in places that cannot or will not charter BSA units. For instance when Chicago would not allow police and fire stations to charter the BSA Law Enforcement and Emergency Service Explorer units, they would sponsor the identical LFL Explorer Posts since they did not have the membership restrictions which remained intact in the traditional programs.

 

LFL does not compete with BSA membership. It allows program to continue in places where political forces would have removed the programs it can now offer.

 

LFL is not BSA lite, there has little if any comparison between any program existing in LFL and those of the traditional BSA programs other that a few Venturing crews that are similar in program to some Posts.

 

In addition to its ability to exist where traditional units cannot, the LFL reaches kids in areas and communities where the traditional program would have great dificulty finding members and leaders. It is able to bring values and self esteem education through public and private school systems to kids who may not otherwise have support systems in their lives where they can learn these values.

 

So I ask again where is the harm of a program that teaches positive attributes to youth whether it is a BSA program , a BSA subsidiary program or a non BSA progarm. Why trash its purose, methods, or its accomplishments simply beacuse it isn't "our" program?

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[scoutldr]

No trash intended...just trying to learn. Where does the "separate income" come from?

 

As I understand it, there are two "divisions" within LFL...a school classroom-based curriculum, and the Exploring program. The question is, how are these programs financed if they get no support from BSA sources?(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[Bob White]

They are funded through grants, private donations, corporate donations and institutional support.

 

My point was that posters decided they did not like it, before they took time to learn anything about it.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Eamonn]

I have no idea what happens in the Council that you serve Bob.

Our Field Director is the person in charge of LFL in our Council. He doesn't receive two pay checks.

The Registrar keeps track of all LFL participants, using equipment that was bought for use by the BSA.

The LFL workers use office space along with phones, postage, that is paid for out of the general fund.

A couple of years back when a School District were going to drop LFL because of cuts in school funding, our Executive Board OKed $6,000 to pay the fees to National.

Our LFL does have an FOS goal of $500.00, which they have yet to meet.

I really do think that LFL is a drain on the resources of the Council I serve.

We do have people and organizations who do help underwrite some of the cost of LFL, still who knows maybe these people and organizations would be willing to help pay for traditional programs?

There are times when I feel very guilty when I state that we serve 10,600 youth in our programs. I know that half of them are in LFL, yet I fail to mention that, when I'm doing a FOS presentation. I fail to mention that the service we offer to the High Schools in our area is a guest speaker who gives a career talk for about forty-five minutes. There are nine speakers a year.

Eamonn.

[Bob White]

Eamonn check with your council executive and you will find (unless your council is different or unless it was explained to us incorrectly) that while your field director only gets one check his time is paid for by funds placed in your general fund from LFL as a payment for those administration services. The BSA cannot use monies raised from FOS to support LFL since it is a separate corporation. Even the cost of the resources of the office used for LFL are reimbursed by LFL monies. While it is dipped from the same well it is fed by different springs.