Starting a NEW Troop

[BSA_Ldr]

I live in a small community with two active troops. I have one boy scout, and one web-2. I am the ASM, and have been in scouting for many years. I am very disatisfied with either of the existing troops. One is completely SM/CC run, with no input from anyone else; the other troop is so boy run, that I witnessed an SPL tell their ASM to "sit down and shut up", in his meeting. I do not believe either extream is acceptable. I am working to better the troops, and to deliver on the promise of scouting to our boys. I am working with my unit commissioner and round-table staff on ideas to improve these units, so I feel I have enough help on that issue.

 

However, if I am unable to make the changes I feel are required in either of these troops, I am considering starting a new troop. I started a vibrant Cub Scout pack, and have been a civic leader for 25years, I can start the troop; that is relatively easy. However, how to make & keep it vibrant.. that is hard. The last thing my community needs is another poor-quality troop.

 

So I come to this community to ask of anyone who started a new troop (do to similar reasons). I would like to know:

*Were your reasons "right" (in hindsight)?

*Should a new troop be the right answer, how to lesson the strain on the community (and the scouts),

*What should I do in the 6-12 months prior to starting a Troop, and what to do in the 6-24 months after starting a Troop?

 

[FScouter]

Have you exhausted all possible courses of actions to help get either of the two existing troops on the right track?

[EagleInKY]

We started a new troop 2 years ago. Our reasons were similar. We had a loose affiliation with one troop (extreme boy-lead), and about 1/3 of our graduating Webelos went that way. About 1/3 went to a mega-troop (Eagle Mill, lots of adult involvement). The others scattered to other troops in the area. We found that most of our kids were dropping out in the first year of Boy Scouts. We decided to start the troop in order to reverse that trend.

 

The big reasons for doing it at the time:

- We had a strong set of leaders who had rebuilt the pack were approaching Boy Scout age.

- There were no strong ties existed to any particular troop.

- Our new sponsoring institution was interested in starting a troop.

 

Our reasons have proven to be right for the most part. Although things have not played out 100% according to what I expected. And, there have been bumps along the way.

 

As for the strain on the community/scouts, I can't really answer that for you. Our area has a large # of scout troops. They cater to different interests, needs, faiths and styles. If you can diferentiate yourself and provide a relevant, quality scouting program, then there shouldn't be a problem. If starting the troop puts a strain on those units not following the methods correctly, maybe you will either (1) force them to close or (2) force them to change. We've noticed this happening with the "extreme" boy-lead unit in our area.

 

Things to do:

- Get alignment with the leaders and key parents coming up over the next 2-3 years.

- Secure a sponsor.

- Get trained. Start attending BS leader training now. Get as many parents/leaders to participate as possible.

- Get your parents committed to making the troop work.

- Get finances aligned. Maybe you (through your sponsor) can get some items/money donated.

 

 

Your new troop will not be perfectly boy-lead from the beginning. It will take a lot of adult leadership to get it going. But as long as you are working toward an end-goal of boy-leadership, you will be okay.

[Kahuna]

I started a new troop about 20 years ago for reasons like yours. Our SM was a control freak and was taking the troop in a direction no one wanted to go. So I lined up one ASM, we got together some dissatisfied parents and created our own sponsor. In the beginning, we met in the social hall of a friendly church and then moved to another. Eventually, we found a sponsor genuinely interested in doing all the things a chartered partner should and moved there. Obviously, that's not the best way to do it.

 

In hindsight, it was exactly the right thing to do. For 15 years, it was one one of the best troops anywhere around. We took overseas trips, went to out of state council camps and graduated 26 Eagles.

 

A strong caution: it was a LOT of work to do it and part of the reason we survived in the early days was that we attracted a number of boys from other troops (not by recruiting them) who had some scouting experience, along with parents who knew the ropes. The other thing was, that as an ex-professional, woodbadge trained scouter, I knew how to work the system. I also worked for myself and could arrange my schedule to go out to schools and other places to do recruiting.

 

In our case, the impact on the community was great, but it was a large residential community with affluent families (never hurts to have money when you need it).

 

It's not a decision to be made lightly, but the rewards if you succeed are fantastic.

[Trevorum]

EagleInKY, I am wondering what is an "extreme boy-lead" troop? and that is bad how?

 

BSA_ldr, welcome to the forums! As an experienced Scouter, we hope you'll stick around and join the campfire! But I have the same question for you: other than his obvious discourtesy, what was wrong with the SPL taking control of the meeting you mentioned and asking the adult to sit down?

 

Not witnessing either of the two troops in question, I am not questioning your judgement; however, I am sure there must be more to your stories than just too much boy-led.

[Bob White]

I need a question answered firs before I can give you my advice BSA_Ldr. HAve you taken any parts of the Scoutmaster Training yet and what courses did you take?

[BSA_Ldr]

I have had SM/CC training; have taught several council/district classes; give civic training on leadership & team building; and will be doing WB later this year. I started a pack, which is now the largest in my community. I have 25 years in the Army. I started as a private, digging ditches; and I just got back from Iraq commanding 200 men in combat. Education is never ending.. but I believe I more than meet the minimum education levels.

 

As to extreme boy lead --- My issue is that this SPL has been told he is in charge complete charge. He has become disrespectful to adults, and abusive to boys. He is not a leader, he is a tyrant.

 

Under the banner of Boy-run, these adults have abdicated their responsibilities as the Troop management team. In the Army, I give 20 year old boys command of a 5million dollar tank, 5 lives, and expect them to take charge under fire. However, no 20 year old would assume that his experience (nor rank) is equal to mine.

 

Boys must be encouraged to grow, and explore; true for anyone, at any age. But a reality I have witnessed is that people sometimes forget that these are indeed boys. These young men lack experience, lack wisdom, and an advanced education. And before anyone says a boy can do those things, I will simply say that wisdom/experience/and repetitive education can ONLY come with age. I can not guarantee that someone over 40 necessarily has the skills to manage a troop; but I will state that a 14 year old boy does not have that experience to do so.

 

When a boy believes that they no longer must respect an adult. then I believe a critical line has been crossed. My own son is dealing with a bad adult leader. I agree with my son that the leader is out of line. However, my son knows that any disrespect to that leader will not be tolerated by me.

 

So I will continue to try to influence the two troops in my town. However, if they fail to rise to the standard, than I have no choi

 

[Trevorum]

BSA_ldr, thanks for your sacrifices. Very glad you made it back home.

 

Yes, it sounds like the junior leaders need a crash refresher course in JLT. And the SM should bring them up short for discourtesy. That should never be tolerated. But it sounds like the SM needs a crash refresher also. I see your problem...

[Bob White]

OKAY BSA_Ldr here are my recommendations.

1) take everything you learned in cubbing and forget it. Boy Scouting is different. The role of the Adult leader is different, the role of the committee is different, the methods are different, the needs and cgharacteristics of the boys are different. Little or nothing you learned or used in cubbing is applicable in Boy Scouting.

 

2) Reread the Scoutmaster Handbbok and The Boy Scout Handbook. Practice the skills and practice teaching them to others.

 

3) Remember that Boy Scout L:eadership and all you other leadersship experiences have a major differece. In Boy Scouting your job is not to get the job done but to teac the elected leaders how to lead.

 

4) The sooner they realize this is their troop and not yours the faster they will take on leadership responsibilities. They will work harder for their plans then they will for yours.

 

5) The SM and The CC really are the driving forces in the troop's adult administration, along with the CR. Committees do not operate by consensus or by majority rule, the CC gives out instructions to the committee members and they report their progress at the monthly committee meetings. Unlike in cubbing the committee does not make the program plan in scouting, the PLC (Patrol Leaders Council) does that.

 

6) Learn to Counsel and Mentor and learn the difference.

 

After the meetings begin....

 

 

1) Go camping right away

 

2) follow a monthly Plan

 

3) do everything by patrol.

 

4) Remeber that the patrol leaders lead the patrols and the SPL is the ringmaster not the boss.

 

5) Follow the handbook and keep the promise of scouting.

 

I will repost a list I put up here once that many found helpful. These are characteristics that I have noticesd were shared by successful scout troops. The more of these elements you can guide the troop to the better the troop will do.

 

 

Tips for a Successful Troop

 

 Everyone gets trained

 You are impacting the lives of every boy in the program, you owe it to them to know your job

 

 Form a Committee and Meet for 90 minutes monthly

 Committee members include

1. Charter Organization Representative

2. Committee Chairperson

3. Treasurer

4. Advancement Chairperson/Membership

5. Scribe

6. Quartermaster

7. Popcorn Chairperson/Special Events

8. Scoutmaster

 The job of the Troop Committee is to support the plans of the scouts, not to make plans for the scouts

 Committees do not vote. The Chairman hands out assignments and the committee members take action and report back to the Chairman.

 

 Go to Summer Camp

 

 Plan, Plan, Plan

 The Scouts under adult guidance select and plan the things they want to do and learn.

 Planning is done through the Patrol Leaders Council

 Use Monthly themes

 Dont feel you have to teach everything the first year

 Patrol leaders run events Adults train the Patrol Leaders and Senior Patrol Leader

 Put your plans in writing

 

 The #1 reasons boys quit scoutingboring meetings

 Use your resources

 Hands on teaching

 Play games

 Change whats going on every 10 to 15 minutes

 

 

 

 REMEMBER Scoutmasters have just 2 primary jobs

1. Know the characteristics of each individual Scout

2. Train Junior Leaders

 

 Select adult leaders

 Dont ask for help or demand help.

1. Determine what has to be done

2. What kind of person does it take to do it

3. Who do you know that fits those characteristics

4. Tel them the job, the goal, the importance of the job, their uniqueness to do it best, the time you expect it to take, the resources you will give them to be successful

5. Keep your promise

6. Give a Big Warm Fuzzy

 

 SMILE

 If you cant play nice go play somewhere else

 If you arent having fun then neither are the boys

 

 Recognize

 Recognize every advancement progression 3 times

1. At the meeting when the advancement was completed

2. Present the award at the very next meeting

3. Present the certificate or record card at the next Court of Honor

 You cannot give positive reinforcement too often as long as it is sincere

 

 Use the Patrol Method

 Troops are not divided into PatrolsPatrols gather to form a Troop

 Small groups of 5 to 8 scouts selected by the scouts not assigned by adults

 Elected leaders from each Patrol form a governing body called a Patrol Leaders Council

 If you dont use the Patrol method, its not scouting. Its just doing things in a scout uniform.

 

 The Patrol Method isnt one way to do Scoutingits the only way

Lord Robert Stephenson Baden-Powell Founder of the Boy Scouts

 

 

 

[purcelce]

Bob

 

that was an awesome answer!!!!!

[EagleInKY]

Trevorum -

 

Boy led to the extreme is when the adult leaders do not do what they are trained to do to mentor, instruct and guide the boy leaders of the troop. Perhaps you've never run into one, but they often border on utter chaos. And, when you ask why they are doing something that may not be appropriate, the answer is always "it's what the boys wanted to do". For example, this troop still does lazer tag and paintball, because the boys want to. Now, I'm not going to debate the pros and cons of that particular rule, but it is a rule, nevertheless.

[zandercage5]

I too have had a problem like this. The only difference is that I am not 18 yet, I will be on the 24 of may of this year. It started a few months ago when I went to go and get my Eagle project approved they should have told me then that I was not going to have the time needed to finish everything I needed to do instead they leaded me on to think I that if I work really hard I could get this. So I went and got my project approved and last night they decided to tell me after getting almost all of the merit badges done and having my project just about done that I can not make it with the time I have left. I told them fine and I walked out of the room and went home. Now I have decided that I am going to start a troop that is going to be ten times better than than that troop. I am also going to work with the cubscouts and allow all the cubs to go on the camping trips and to come into our meetings with the troop was not doing before, that troop does not even want the cubs to even camp in the same site as us. I am going to stop any other scout froom getting hurt like I did.

[ScoutNut]

I am sorry for your problems Zandercage5.

 

However, a question comes to mind. Since in bit over a week you will be 18, and graduating high school soon, I must assume that somewhere along the way you learned to read and do simple math. It is not rocket science to read the requirements and figure out for YOURSELF if you have the time to finish or not.

 

How many, and which, merit badges do you still have to do? Why will you not have enough time?

 

I take it since your Eagle project is "just about done" that you have decided to just leave it that way and not follow thru and finish?

 

You need to have all of the requirements finished by your 18th birthday, not have received your Eagle. You can also petition for more time if you have a REALLY, REALLY, GOOD reason for not finishing by your birthday (not just couldn't get it together in time).

 

 

[shortridge]

While I'm also sorry for your feelings, doing something in anger or frustration is never a good path. Take a few days, do some deep breathing, reflect on your situation, and figure out what you want to do and what the best course of action is. If you do want to start a new troop, you'll need to find (a) some Scouts and (b) some adult leaders. At 18, you're not old enough to be a Scoutmaster.

 

It should also be pointed out that Cub camping is a totally different animal from Boy Scout camping. Cubs do day camps, resident camps, Webelos den overnights, council-organized family camps and pack overnighters. They shouldn't be camping with Boy Scouts.

[zandercage5]

I am going to finish my project, and I had all the merit badges I need finshed and just waiting for to be signed, or on track to be done. I am going to fight to make eagle by going to other people take can sign the stuff off. I going to make eagle or try really hard and make the conslers look bad because the work is done its just needs to be signed off and they are refusing to sign it off, which they can't do.