Legal Liability of Scouters

[OneHour]

If I were a new leader or someone who's just lurking to learn about scouting and how to take on the leadership position that was just presented to me and I were to run across this posting, I would cease my search, turn and run away from the leadership position that I was contemplating on taking on; as a matter of fact, you all have made me think twice now. Tell me again, why I do what I do every week with the troop and pack while the "liability" dagger dangling over my head? Am I to be gunshied of everything that I do from now on?

 

[dsteele]

A mountain has been made of a molehill here. Speak with your council service center's finance director or other senior professional for specific information to your council.

 

I understand the BSA has excellent liability coverage . . . in some cases it's secondary, but in many cases it's primary. There's also a difference between liability insurance and accident insurance.

 

I think I've read some very sincere posts in this thread . . . but only your local council service center can give you the specifics to your council.

 

Unc.

[packsaddle]

Eamonn, I sympathize with your feelings on insurance companies, they are for us and against us at the same time.

Those were a lot of numbers that you wrote, but most of them DO look like chump change considering what I have seen before (accidental death benefit of $10K?, that must be a typo). But that was all for accidents. Do you know if liability is different? And if so, how? Right now, from what I am reading here, I'm going to hang onto my personal umbrella. But I won't start worrying, OneHour, until I start catching fish.

[OneHour]

Packsaddle ... what if that fish turns out to be a shark? Anyway, I thought that I had this worry burried deep down in my subconscience a while back when our former CC gave us the same scare. He rambled on and on about liability and how he and his wife were taking on $1,000,000 liability coverage because they were in leadership position. I guess that the only way is to find out from the council as Unc suggested. Back of our original broadcast ... scouting.

[mich632]

Here is an exact quote from Connecticut Rivers Council that is attached to our tour permits. Can't say if other councils are the same.

 

" As you know, the BSA provides primary liability insurance for registered leaders participating in Scouting programs that are conducted within the policies of the BSA"

 

IE our council provides primary liability. Don't have to use homeowners.

 

It continues.

 

" Submitting a Tour Permit Application less than 14 days of an activity does not comply with BSA policy and depending on the nature of the lawsuit, could adversly impact the liability insurance available to Scouting Volunteers."

 

IE our council has warned us that failure to follow BSA policy could limit their coverage.

 

I have read the G2SS, I carry it with me on trips. I follow it for the scouts protection, but more importantly for my protection.

[Vicki]

Thanks for the confirmation as to the primary nature of the insurance. Not to quibble, Mich632, but what the other language is telling you is that they want 14 days to review the tour permit application and determine if the proposed activity and supervision of it is within BSA guidelines. Failure to comply may limit their liability - reasonable precaution on their part. It is not the more general statement that you took it as, that failure to follow more general BSA guidelines will limit their liability.

 

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[eisely]

Concerns about liability is not making a mountain out of a mole hill, but I agree that the risks are somewhat overblown. I have seen far more serious injuries in one season of youth soccer than I have seen in seventeen years of scouting as an adult. Like everybody says; understand the BSA rules, get the training, follow the BSA rules, obey the law, and act reasonably. If something bad happens you probably cannot avoid getting sued, but you probably would not end up being held liable. Now let's all hit the trail and stop worrying.

[packsaddle]

So, what about that $10K death benefit? If your child was just killed and BSA's insurer just handed you condolences and a check for $10K, how would you feel? How would you react? I'll wager that more than a few people would start looking for some deep pockets - with a vengeance.

[eisely]

Packsaddle,

 

If I were a parent who lost a child due to some negligence on the part of an adult leader, I too would be angry. If I felt that the leader were competent and not reckless, and everything reasonable was done to manage the risks, I would be much less angry.

 

One of the more nonsensical ideas one hears is that "we can't put a value on a life". In fact we do that every day. One has to recognize that in cases of civil liability for a death, be it an auto accident or whatever, one of the main things that is looked at is the earning power and the financial responsibilities of the deceased. Minor children are not looked at as earning assets but as liabilities and a death benefit of only $10,000, while not compensation for the feelings of the parents, would be consistent with how courts would look at this situation. A parent who is the primary breadwinner for a family has real responsibilities and a court would likely award far more.

[eisely]

This link should, if I have done this right, take you to an online newsletter of the Mt. Diablo Silverado Council, May 2005 edition. Go to page four for an article on insurance and liability that should clear some things up.

 

http://www.bsa-mdsc.org/smokesignals.shtml

[orennoah]

Your link worked and the info there was very helpful. Thanks.

 

- Oren