About this Methods Thing...

[Hunt]

I'd like to thank Trevorum for a post that was actually Scoutlike and worth reading. Putting word games aside ("required" vs. "needed"--give me a break), clearly units apply and emphasize the methods of Scouting in different ways. As long as they don't ignore or subvert the methods, I haven't heard anybody object to that kind of variation.

 

I would also like to add that anybody who reads posts on the internet should well understand that you have to judge statements and arguments based on the sense they make, since you really can't tell what's behind them.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Nobody as of yet has objected to the Methods of Scouting.

[Bob White]

Let's not obscure the original question.

 

The question was not 'do you object to the methods', the question was 'who agrees or disagrees with Ed that the methods are not required?'.

 

And if I understand the posts from OGE, Eamon, and some others...if the methods of scouting are what make a program a "scouting" program, how could you not understand and accept that the methods are required?

If you do not use them then you are not scouting.

 

BW

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

Arguing over the question and/or the lack of objections is even funnier. That has the makings of fairly dry humor with a twist. Does anyone want an ice cube with theirs?

[OldGreyEagle]

Fuzzy, I think I understand what you are saying, then again maybe not. I cant tell you how surprised I was when I read Ed's comment on the uniform line that the methods werent required and now again in this thread that the methods arent required. I dont know how to do boy scouting without the methods, if saying that makes me fodder for the funniest dad in America, then sign me up.

[OldGreyEagle]

I double posted, but what the heck, if you dont use the methods, what do you do?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Eamonn]

I would hope that everything posted in these forums does not have to be some sort of an argument?

Maybe everyone who visits these forums is aware of the methods of Scouting and using them to there fullest?

What is wrong with a discussion where about something that some of us feel is at the very heart of what we are doing?

The question was asked by OGE and people have answered it and added their 2 cents.

Eamonn.

[Eagledad]

>>What is wrong with a discussion where about something that some of us feel is at the very heart of what we are doing?

[Eamonn]

Hi Barry,

OK maybe we /I have gone a bit more into this than was asked in the original question asked by OGE?

As I have posted before I do enjoy and do learn from your postings.

I have to admit that I'm having a hard time seeing what you are getting at when you say:

 

"I've always felt that methods are "not" the adults responsibility to use in their troop, the responsibility belongs to the scouts"

I wish I could blame this on March madness, but this is May.

I do agree that making the methods work is a shared task. But I think we the adults have a lot of the responsibility for allowing the methods to work.

How about, in answer to:

"I would be excited to have a discussion on methods, could somebody start the discussion over and ask the question differently?"

We beg the indulgence of our moderators and take a look at each method for a week?

In an effort to avoid any unnecessary harshness?? We should try and dwell on the positive and ask: What are you doing to make the "Whatever" Method of Scouting work?

I really don't think that whatever is posted is going to change the hearts and minds of those who are committed to the "We don't do it that way" train of thought, but there are some new forum members who are new to Scouting and there are us old folks who enjoy exercising the little gray cells. We also have had in the past few weeks some youth members who seem to want to explore the program and how it works.

I hope that maybe along the way, you will explain what you mean by the Scouts taking responsibility for the methods.

Eamonn.

 

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>I really don't think that whatever is posted is going to change the hearts and minds of those who are committed to the "We don't do it that way" train of thought, but there are some new forum members who are new to Scouting and there are us old folks who enjoy exercising the little gray cells.

[Fuzzy Bear]

This quote was put forth during this "discussion" by one very knowledgeable poster,

 

"This forum could be a great tool to learn about delivering a quality scouting program. But that doesn't mean that anybody with a Scout uniform in the closet and a keyboard should consider themselves a teacher. If you lose half your new scouts every year, if you don't understand the how or why the methods work, if you can't keep the majority of your scouts after they turn 16, if your troop is 1/3 the size it was two years ago, if you have never finished the courses for basic leader training in your position, then you need to realize you are a student not a teacher. You need to be asking questions and considering some personal changes, not offering opinions and telling people "your way" of scouting.

 

Lastly, this is the internet, in case no one ever told you, some people on the internet lie. There are posters on this forum who are not what they claim to be. You need to choose who you listen to. There are posters who say "this is what I do". What they fail to tell you is that thier program failed or is failing. There are posters here who claim to have experience that they do not have and they use that false background as evidence of knowledgethe. The best way to make sure that what you are hearing is accuate you need to put more trust in the official resources of the BSA than you put in the writings of ANY poster here. You need to know your job and how to do it according to the BSA program not according to anyone here. You need to learn the program you volunteered to lead."

 

It was agreed by all, even the Liars, Failures, Incompetent, Untrained and the Inexperienced alike here that the Methods of Scouting are not required but it also appears that all of the same great unwashed posters use the Methods of Scouting. Nobody said they use softball or religion or some other method, tool, organization, etc. on an on to achieve the Aims of Scouting. The Uniform is not required and even with all of the past "discussions" it looks like most of the lowly ones, if not all use it as well as one of the Methods of Scouting.

 

Agreement in light of the method of presentation of this "discussion" is both funny and ruggedly insightful.

 

FB

[evmori]

Nowhere have I posted we don't use the methods in my Troop. That was an assumed by certain posters. And certain posters love to take pot shots at those they think should be students & not teachers. Bad form.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

Ed, I have to tell you I was outright flabbergasted, flummoxed and totally confused when you said the methods were not required. I couldnt beleive you didnt think that they were the cornerstones of the Boy Scout program, that they arent required. Maybe I should have rephrased the quesiton to what do you think is required in the Boy Scout program? I want to understand what you are saying, PM me if you wish

[Bob White]

Bad form to me would be supplementing the BSA scoutiung program with your personal variations and having it fail the boys. If a leader admittedly doesn't follow and support the BSA program methods, policies and procedures and the unit he or she serves is failing, to refuse to ackowledge that the problem is not the program and its methods but the inneffectiveness of the individual(s) "improvements" is bad form.

 

While a couple posters would like to turn the topic to be about me, aor my righting style, the question is about understanding the methods. They would find it inpossible to find anything I have written, regardless of how they view my writing style, that shows ant misunderstanding or misuse of the scouting methods.

 

If the methods are mot required to have a scouting program as Ed has said, then what is required?

[acco40]

Scouting has aims. Scouting has methods to achieve those aims. The aims can be achieved without using all of the methods, but that would not be Scouting.

 

I don't think anyone would disagree with the above. Now, what does "required" mean? I think that is where BW, Ed, and others struggle. If a troop has a policy that "Scouts pants are not required" most agree that the uniform method is not being followed the way the BSA program is laid out. But what are the consequences? Are the leaders BSA membership pulled? Does God strike them down? Are they incarcerated? Does that troops value to the boys become worthless?

 

And OGE, your original question could very easily have been rephrased as simply, "Who believes that the Methods of Scouting are required?"