2 deep leadership question

[nldscout]

If this was a trip where the troop was camping in same campsite, no one would think twice about going with 3 leaders. So why is this different?

 

[ozemu]

Question on random parent. Must the non-registered over 21 adult be a parent of a Scout? Could not another trustworthy adult (SM approved is a given) be used? You know - a teacher, police officer, coach etc.

 

Is the requirement to be a parent a BSA rule or an assumption pls?

 

No criticisim intended FScouter. Just curious.

[anarchist]

As long as the leaders are 'together' I don't even see the need for a third...for BSA requirements...I think you have issues if each leader spilts off to stay the night in different camps...its problematic...so don't.

 

BW has a point that is not considered in the thread, though CNYScouter may have already checked this out...In our neck of the woods, state and national parks require not only adult presence and 'control' of 'youth group' camping permits but in many cases specific ratios of kids to adults...And the 'contracting adult' has to 'sign' that he and all parties involved understand and will abide by the rules...which I believe is also required by the BSA tour permit...(abiding by the regs. of the camping facility, that is)

YiS

[Bob White]

Ozemu

 

The YP requirements for two deep leadership requires that Two registered adult leaders, or one registered adult and a parent of a participating Scout, one of whom must be at least 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips or outings.

 

So if one of the two adults is not a registered leader he or she must be the parent of a scout on the trip.

[FScouter]

The registered adult, or non-registered parent rule is written in the Guide to Safe Scouting. I misspoke when I said "any other adult".

[CNYScouter]

Thanks for all the responses.

 

Things were brought up here that I hadnt thought of.

 

To let you know some of the details of this trip are the place we are going is 5500+ acres state owned land. No permits required to use and is open for anyone to hike, camp, mountain bike and hunt.

 

There are general state rules and regulations for usage and ground fires are allowed unless its a dry season(usually late summer) and a warning will be posted. This land is used in the spring and summer for hiking, camping, and mountain biking and for hunting in the fall and winter. There are no facilities or services , with only a couple of lean-tos with fire pits. This land is minimally maintained by hiking, hunting and mountain bike clubs.

 

We are having trouble getting leaders to go because this is the Troops second trip for the month and it is a strenuous outing. The other trip is a mountain biking trip this weekend and the other half of the leaders are going to this. This trip involves driving up on a Friday night (only about hour), hiking 3 or 4 miles into the woods and making camp. The next day will be playing the game and then hiking out before dark on Saturday.

 

You have given some great ideas how to do this with the leadership we have going. I hope that we will find someone to go and not have to alter our plans. But, I have gotten some good options to make this happen if not.

 

[dsteele]

The recitations of the two deep leadership requirements have been correct in this thread.

 

I haven't seen a mention of the other option if you have a trusted adult who is not registered and is not a parent of a participating youth . . .

 

Get them registered! Have them fill out an adult application, get the proper signatures, and submit it to the council service center. There's no waiting period to become a registered leader.

 

Just a thought.

 

Unc.

[FScouter]

A committee member would meet the requirment also. Or a registered member from another troop.

 

 

[packsaddle]

nldscout, I believe you are still waiting for a response. In one sense, the outing is a single troop outing and two-deep may be satisfied, as a legal technicality. The problem I see is that the scenario has the two groups separated by a significant distance. "These campsites may be 2 to 3 miles apart depending how far they want to hike."

It would be derelict for either group to be left alone so the effect is that each group only has the benefit of one-deep leadership. If there was an incident of some sort, only one adult would be witness to it and able to respond immediately to an emergency, and in response either the other group would be left alone while their leader responded or the entire group would have to hike over with the adult. Either way, there are serious deficiencies that impact safety. I stick with two leaders at each site.