Financial Assistance

[MajBob]

I was recently appointed treasurer of my son's troop. Does the BSA have any guidance/policy regarding accounting practices for the treasurer? (Or does anyone else have suggestions?)

 

I had planned to use Quicken, but have trouble with it because it is not double entry; how does one deal with individual scout's accounts (which contain the scout's share of fund raisers, prepayment of summer camp fees, etc., etc.) It seems I would be better off using Peachtree, or something similar; - again - any suggestions?

 

(The former treasures is not available for assistance . . .)

 

Thaks in advance,

 

Bob Hendry

Troop 908

Southern Maryland

 

[Bob White]

The BSA requires that two signatures be needed on any check drawn from the unit account, They recommend the Treasurer, Committee chair, and Unit Leader have authorization , with any two needed on each check.

 

They require a detailed monthly report to the unit commitee each month.

 

They recommend that the the money earned this year be spend on the scouts this year.

 

 

I am not aware of any other requirements or recommendations.

[acco40]

The BSA requires that two signatures be needed on any check drawn from the unit account. - BW, Would you let me know the source of that requirement? I agree that that is an excellent accounting practice but I was not aware it was a requirement.

 

Troop Ledger is a S/W resource that can handle Scout Accounts.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[MajBob]

Thanks - I just ordered TroopLedger ME. It looks pretty comprehensive - is it difficult to learn?

 

I too would like to know if it is indeed required by BSA that all troop checks bear two signatures. Is there a BSA website that discusses accounting procedures and requirements?

 

Thanks again for your responses.

 

Bob Hendry

Troop 908

Hughesville, Maryland

[NJCubScouter]

(The former treasures is not available for assistance . . .)

 

How many years did he get?

 

Just kidding (hopefully.)

 

[MajBob]

Good one - she moved on very short notice . . .

 

Cheers

[eisely]

BSA does not require two signatures on checks, but recommends dual signature accounts. It is a very good idea.

 

Our troop does not maintain accounts for individual scouts. If you are going to do this, you have to have an accounting system that will handle it. You will also need clear policies on (1) what share of fund raising efforts for the troop will go into the scout's account, (2) will this share be based on sales or hours spent at a car wash, etc., or both, (3) what kind of things may the scout spend money on (summer camp fees, outings, equipment, uniforms, etc), (4) what kind of documentation will be required for withdrawals, and (5) what happens to the money when the boy leaves the unit (drops out of scouting altogether, transfers to another unit, or moves out of the area.

 

The treasurer should take the lead in preparing an annual budget for the troop. Considerations in budgeting: (1) should all outings be self supporting or financed out of the general treasury, (2) what fund raisers will the troop undertake, (3) what share of the take from fund raisers will the troop keep and what will be held for the boys, (4) what should be budgeted for routine administrative expenses for the scoutmaster, (5) how will the scoutmaster be reimbursed (how often and what documentation - do you want to reimburse for every single postage stamp?), (6) what should be budgeted for advancement materials (rank insignia, etc), (7) what other recurring expenses does the troop have (e.g., we have to pay for storage for our gear), (8) will the troop pay training expenses for adult leaders (if so this has to be budgeted), (9) who on the committee will prepare an equipment budget, (10) what will the troop charge for annual dues, (11) will the troop charge for part year dues for new scouts coming in in the spring.

 

The foregoing is not an exhaustive list, but merely springs to mind from experience.

 

BW is correct that troops should not plan to build up an excessive cash reserve. Fund raising and dues should be geared to anticipated program expenses on an annual basis. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with accumulating a modest reserve balance for unanticipated expenses. There is also nothing wrong with establishing accounts for funds earmarked for future events beyond the current year, such as expeditions to Philmont that are planned on a two year basis.

 

You should plan to provide some kind of treasurer report on a monthly basis to the troop committee. There is no established format for this.

 

I have not seen a lot of BSA published guidance on managing unit finances. What little I have seen is in the Troop Committee Guidebook.

 

Good luck. You have taken on a serious responsbility.

 

[Oak Tree]

Dual signatures sound like a great safeguard as a knee-jerk reaction, but I'm curious. How does it actually help prevent problems?

 

If someone wanted to steal from the account, couldn't they just forge the second name?

 

Does anyone think that the bank actually checks signatures?

 

I'm looking at the Committee Guidebook, and among the Treasurer duties are "Maintain checking and savings accounts". Chapter 6 says "An account that requires two signatures on each check, those of the committee treasurer and Scoutmaster, is recommended."

 

We just have the treasurer show us the report each month of all income and outgo, and looking at the bank statement can confirm it.

 

The hassle of getting two signatures on every check would outweigh whatever security benefit there would be, at least for us (not clear that there'd be any benefit).

 

Oak Tree(This message has been edited by Oak Tree)

[eisely]

Related to the question of two signatures is the idea that the treasurer, committee chair, and scoutmaster should all come from different households. Granted that a two signature account is not foolproof and is also more cumbersome, but it certainly will make someone intent to steal think a little bit harder about the idea. Requiring monthly reports and having an audit committee look at the records annually will also be sound safeguards.

 

The fact is that non profit organizations are more vulnerable to theft of funds than either a regular business or a government entity. While we all trust one another, sensible safeguards are just sound practice. When you consider the amounts that have been diverted from large corporations in sophisticated schemes, it is obvious that no system is completely fool proof. Minimal safeguards will go a long way to deter petty theft, but will not stop a determined crook.

 

Nobody thought Mr. Smith at the national office was into child pornography either.

[SemperParatus]

Invest in Quickbooks (business version of Quicken)...it is much better and easier to use than Peachtree.

[Vicki]

Hope you don't mind the "quote and reply" style here and I'm not picking on Oak Tree, but he/she seemed to hit all the points others were thinking about in the same e-mail so here goes.

 

Oak Tree wrote >Dual signatures sound like a great safeguard as a knee-jerk reaction, but I'm curious. How does it actually help prevent problems? >

 

It helps prevent problems because hopefully each signer will scrutinize the expense before he or she signs the check. It makes it much more difficult to falsify an invoice and it means that collusion is required to commit theft.

 

>If someone wanted to steal from the account, couldn't they just forge the second name?

 

Does anyone think that the bank actually checks signatures? >

 

The bank doesn't check anything unless a problem arises. If, upon review, a signature is forged or missing, the bank is then usually liable for reparation to the customer.

 

>Chapter 6 says "An account that requires two signatures on each check, those of the committee treasurer and Scoutmaster, is recommended." >

 

This allows for a clear separation of function (as opposed to having the CC and the treasurer), something auditors (myself included) get nice warm fuzzy feelings from:We just have the treasurer show us the report each month of all income and outgo, and looking at the bank statement can confirm it. >

 

Yes, you can confirm income and outgo per the bank statement but you can't confirm whether or not a payment or deposit was valid/complete using this procedure. All kinds of fraud (with cute names) can be committed because individual payments and/or deposits are not verified.

 

>The hassle of getting two signatures on every check would outweigh whatever security benefit there would be, at least for us (not clear that there'd be any benefit). >

 

I'll be honest, I'm the treasurer for our troop (although I had hoped to do something that wasn't my bread and butter as my main function) and we don't require two signatures. The troop doesn't want to do it that way. There are some accounting controls I've put in place that help mitigate this. The most obvious one doesn't have anything to do with checks but is very basic so I'll use it as an example - I never handle cash someone else hasn't counted first and I always count it again in that person's presence.

 

Vicki

 

[Hunt]

I guess these days even our money need two-deep leadership!

[Vicki]

Actually, Hunt, that's not a bad comparison. Although hopefully there will always be more thieves out there than pedophiles. Which begs the question another poster posed - why not put safeguards around the money as we do around our children? Part of the reason, IMO, is that we don't want people to think we don't trust them. Far too many people get defensive around this issue...as I believe Reagan said, "Trust, but verify"!

 

Vicki

 

 

[Bob White]

Sorry, I should have said "recommends" and not "requires".

BW

[dsteele]

I like and firmly believe in having two check-signers required for unit funds. I have heard horror stories from units who have had significant funds stolen from them by a one-person treasurery.

 

I don't think they're all bad people. I worked with one unit where funds were eventually determined to be stolen. The pack popcorn chair was handling all the funds. Her family came upon hard times and she would "borrow" some cash from the popcorn money with every intention of paying it back. One thing led to another, and pretty soon you're talking about real money.

 

One system I have seen required two signatures (out of a possible 4 people) in order to maintain a checks and balances. None of these individuals was the Scoutmaster. He (me) didn't want to handle the liability of money.)

 

However, I had $50.00 petty cash from the troop treasury. When I ran low or out, I accounted for the petty cash with receipts and money and another $50.00 was doled out.

 

It was a system that worked well for us.

 

Unc.