Why did they eliminate the Leadership Corps?

[EagleInKY]

I tried spinning this off, but received an error. So here it is without the spinoff.

 

I took a 10 year hiatus from scouts around the mid-80s to mid-90s. During that time, the old Leadership Corps was eliminated. Does anyone know why? What was the reasoning behind the decision?

 

I'm not second guessing (okay, maybe I am a little), but I thought it worked pretty well. I know of several troops that use modern day versions of it or a blend of the leadership corps/venture patrol concept. I even know one troop that still wears the old Leadership Corps patches. They must buy them every time they see them on Ebay. I think they recycle them too.

[spl409]

Good question. I'm the person that wrote the "Woods Wisdom" post. I have been trying to explain my Troops own Junior Leaders' Corps (for more info. see my post). I am only 15 so I don't know the answer but I would Appreciate it very much also.

[DugNevius]

I guess our troop is one of those using a modern version. I was unaware this was something very few troops practiced.

[dan]

Was the old Leadership Corps ran like spl409 posted in his Woods Wisdom post. Where the Scoutmaster assigned the scouts to the Leadership Corps? And than the Leadership Corps ran the troop. If this is true I can see why the BSA decided that there maybe a better way to be boy run.

[NJCubScouter]

The following is based on my recollection from 30+ years ago so it may not be 100 percent accurate, but here is what I recall about the Leadership Corps.

 

The Leadership Corps was introduced as part of the major changes of 1972-73, replacing something that was called either the Senior Patrol or Senior Scouts (or both.) Other changes in terminology at that time included changing Patrol Leaders Council to Troop Leaders Council, Junior Leader Training to Troop Leader Development (I have an old uniform with my TLD patch still on it), and "ranks" to "progress awards." (Notice how many of these changes have survived to today, if my calculations are correct, that would be: Zero. The patches are still round, though; before 72-73 the rank and position patches were generally rectangular, in 72-73 they became round (or oval) and colorful, now they are still round (or oval) but less colorful.)

 

Anyway, as I recall (again) our troop did not actually have a Leadership Corps for the first couple years after it became an option. When I was SPL (late 74 and into 75) I appointed the first Leadership Corps, and that is what the book said to do: The SPL appoints the Leadership Corps along with other troop-wide positions such as ASPL, Scribe, etc. The LC did not "run the troop," they were there to assist the SPL and PL's, and the official description of their duties probably included a mixture of what today would be the duties of Instructor, Troop Guide, and maybe also ASPL. I believe the TLC (PLC) meetings were attended both by the Patrol Leaders and Leadership Corps members, but any arrangements regarding voting are beyond my recollection. I am not sure we even had "voting," it seems to me decisions were probably reached by "consensus." I also believe that the people I appointed to the LC were all former PL's so it was almost like a "Patrol Leader Emeritus" sort of thing. I also seem to recall that it was a bit difficult to figure out what they were actually supposed to do, and it probably served more as a "candidate pool" for SPL or a "waiting room" for JASM (in the case of former SPL's who were not yet 16) than anything else.

 

As for what happened to the LC, all I know is that when I "graduated" from Boy Scouts in 1976, it was there, and when my son joined a troop in 2003, it wasn't, along with most of the other "new ideas" that had been introduced when I was a Scout. My son's troop does have a "senior patrol" that seems to include the SPL, ASPL and former SPLs/ASPLs who are not in a regular patrol. I suspect that this "senior patrol" is not actually sanctioned by any current BSA publications. (It is not a "Venture Patrol" which is a whole other issue in my troop.) It looks to me like a version of the Leadership Corps idea under a different name.

[Scout Commish]

The Leadership Corps replaced Senior Scouts as an outgrowth of the "new improved Scouting program" in 1972. Venture crews (now patrols) replaced the Leadership Corps in 1989.

 

All of these programs were a way of dealing with older boys in the troop.

 

The Leadership Corps was exactly that. A group of older scouts to be called upon to provide leadership when needed and to serve as an example of an ideal patrol.

 

The Venture program was introduced as a way of dealing with the older scouts by giving them an opportunity to participate in a high adventure program (or sports through the Varsity program). National has provided very little guidance and literature for the Venture program.

 

My opinion is that in many troops the Leadership Corps became "eliteist" and started operating seperately from the troop rather than serving as role models and instructors for the troop. This was further encouraged by the seperate green uniform and red berets.

 

However, in many troops it was implemented in a way that works and continues to this day in various forms.

 

With the overlap from Venturing, there appears to be confusion over implementing the Venture Patrol. Venture Patrols that I have seen are beginning to look alot like the Leadership Corps.

 

It would appear that National should once again consider the Leadership Corps by examining how it works in the troops that have kept it going all these years.

 

[Eagledad]

>>It would appear that National should once again consider the Leadership Corps by examining how it works in the troops that have kept it going all these years.

[Scout Commish]

You are correct that the field was asked for input on JLTC. I also hope that people listened.

 

But when you say "national", remember that national is us also. We have more input than many people realize. Most of the really great ideas in Scouting began with volunteers in the field. Totin' Chit, Whittling Chip, Pinewood Derby, and Webelos Dens come to mind quickly.

 

When you are sitting around the campfire as leaders grumble about national, ask for a show of hands of how many have written letters to communicate their ideas to the national committees.

 

The internet is making the world smaller. And while we are dragging Scouting into 21st century communications, it IS happening. I never thought I would see the day that youth protection would be web based, but it happened. JLTC asking for input online is another first. Later this year there will be some form of online BSA catalog ordering.

 

Yes, the Scouting world is getting smaller. And I believe that the pace will speed up dramatically as National experiences continued success through the use of the internet. The end result will be a better program for the boys in the near future.

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>but it happened. JLTC asking for input online is another first.

[Proud Eagle]

I have also heard that unit leaders will be given ScoutNet access (read only, no changing data, and only for records relating to their unit) sometime possibly next year.

 

Of coarse with the now widespread use of troop software I have to wonder how useful that will actually be.

 

Also, at long last an update was made to Scoutnet so OA lodges can check their membership against Council membership.

 

Finally (and somewhat unfortunately late) the OA national committee has decided to support the developement of a ScoutNet compatible LodgeMaster database. Of coarse by this point most lodges have already built quite extensive and capable databases of their own, but hey at least they are heading in the right direction (even if a few years late).

 

I think maybe BSA is finally starting to move again.

 

I wouldn't be suprised if we start seeing the pace of change within BSA accelerate exponentially before long.

 

Rumor has it some things that have happened in my own little council are even bringing about changes in policies at the national level. So what we locals do, what we learn from experience, it really can be applied for the greater good.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Thanks for the great info. What an elite group we have here! Jerseyman, I appreciate the dates. I didn't realize that the LC was created along with all those other fads in the early 70s. I was just a Cub Scout when that came along, but my older brother was in Boy Scouts. All I knew was that once our troop grew to a decent size, we had a Leadership Corps, and it seemed to work pretty well. As you stated, it seemed to be a combination of soon-to-be SPLs and former SPLs. I don't remember us really running the troop, but doing a lot of the teaching. Of course, in that day, we did BOR for up to First Class, but that's another thread. Like you, it was there when I left scouts, and gone when I returned.

 

We're planning on forming a Venture Patrol next year and I'm trying to figure out what it's supposed to look like.

[jackmessick]

The Venture Patrol structure is discussed in the latest Scoutmaster Handbook.

 

The requirements are the same as for the leadership corps of the 70s: 14 years old or older, First Class Rank.

 

There is a tan and red "VENTURE" strip they can wear above the "BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA" strip.

 

Venture Patrols still wear red "fruit loops" on their shoulders. Green are only for Venture Crews.

 

The Scoutmaster Handbook recommends an Assistant Scoutmaster be made the chief adult adviser to the Venture Patrol. Venture Patrols cannot be co-ed; only separately charterd Venture Crews can be co-ed.

 

It is interesting to note that in the Scoutmaster Handbook of the late 1940s, they recommended having an "Explorer Patrol" for the senior scouts. Of course, the Explorer Patrol idea was later expanded into the whole Explorer program. Similarly with Venture Patrols and Venture Scouting. So for the past 50-60 years, there has always been a "senior" Scouting program, just by some other name, whether Explorer Patrol, Senior Patrol, Leadership Corps, or Venture Patrol.

 

Of course, there is also the Varsity Program now, though I am not too familiar with that.

 

jam

[KoreaScouter]

Three things:

 

I think unit-level read-only access to ScoutNet is important, and can coexist with unit-level Troop management software. If nothing else, it'll give unit leaders a quick & easy way to reconcile ScoutNet records with unit-level records on particular Scouts -- very important for Life Scouts knocking on the door to Eagle, and for any transfer Scouts regardless of rank. Of course, you can do that now, through District registrars, but they have a lot of demands on their time, and giving read-only access to unit leaders will relieve them of a lot of that "Can you check for me?" burden.

 

Second, I think BSA would be well-served to give some unit leaders (CC and Cubmaster/Scoutmaster, for example) bsamail accounts. So many things are done electronically now, and every unit leader I know communicates with his District staffers at least part of the time by e-mail. To be sure, there are issues involved with it, but I think they could be resolved.

 

Finally, for EagleInKy, read the BSA description of the Venture Patrol in the SM Handbook, then sit back and consider carefully how that would work out in your Troop. Are your experienced Scouts sufficiently squared away to "fly solo" without older Scouts in their patrols as senior mentors, for lack of a better term? If your older Scouts are reformed into a full-time VP, will that human dynamic be an overall positive, or a negative? How many older Scouts do you have, and would it necessitate more than one VP, or a single very large one? What do your older Scouts want to do -- you might be surprised.

 

KS

 

[spl409]

Sorry I have not replyed lately. I was out of town for the holidays. In response to "dan"s posting:

 

The Scoutmaster does not assign the boys to the Leadership Corps, but it is the Scoutmasteers final disicion to let a boy into the Corps(but he usually lets us decide without his input).

 

And no this is not how the Leadership Corps used to be run, it is our "Modern" version.

[resqman]

In the late 70's our troop had a leadership corp. Red patch in a boxy shape. Kind of inverted pyramid with the point cut off.

 

In my troop, the rule was you had to be an Eagle to be in the Leadership Corps. It operated basically as a Patrol and group of ASPL "on demand". We had a large troop of 5 or 6 patrols along with the Leadership Corp. We also had enough Eagles to form a patrol.

 

The Corps was looked upon with envy and admiration. Here was a group of Eagle scouts. They knew all the answers and were able to do all the skills.

 

Eventually we formed an Explorer Post to give the older boys something to do and keep them interested. It also freed up positions so the younger could advance.