SPLs are now 7th graders

[ps56k]

Just wanted to leave a note for other readers about the latest non-change in our Troop. It's been a tough battle for the past couple of years. I've tried to raise the bar, encourage Scouting activities, and build upon the boys leadership. But it's all in vain, because we have no Scouts in the Troop over the age of 14, yet have 20+ Life Scouts on the Troop Roster with ages from 14 up to 18. Once they hit High School, they are gone.

So - we have Cub Scouts, then Boys Scouts for a maybe 4 years, and THEN GONE.

WHY - Because once you have achieved First Class, why come to a meeting... what do you NEED at a meeting other than a POR. Merit Badges are handed out at MB clinics, and occansionally at Troop Meetings. And, once you get your Life rank and POR for 6 months at about age 14, you have the next FOUR YEARS to try and make Eagle without ever coming to another meeting, campout, or Troop activity. So, no one over 14 wants to become SPL... Why should they - hey, it involves more work, and another meeting (PLC) every month. Our latest "election" installed a 7th grader as SPL with 6th graders as ASPLs. We are not a TROOP, we are merely the 3rd and 4th year WEBELOS... and have to redo everything every 4 years as the boys/scouts move thru the assembly line and then out into the GHOST PATROL to reappear years later wanting an Eagle BOR.

What about our son/Scout - yeah, he is Life, 14, and will be hitting High School in the fall (he has a late birthday), but he also was ASPL, SPL, now QM, and was elected into the OA, (1 of 6 voted, he was the only one to go to Ordeal) and he is on staff for JLTC/NYLT (1st in the troop to go at all) and also going to Jamboree... Does Scouting conflict ? Sure, with his Track (runs hurdles & sprints) and also his Swim Team (went to State Championships). But he makes every meeting, and most campouts, and still has great grades at school.

[SR540Beaver]

Did you ever try dropping them from the roster at recharter time? You are under no obligation to call them up and track down their annual fee. If they don't come to a meeting and pay up at recharter time, drop them from the roster. When they show up four years later to do an Eagle project, they might be shocked to find that they have not been a Boy Scout for four years.

 

I realize that you don't want to do that and you want to retain them, but you have to get their attention and help them understand that they have an obligation to the troop if they want the troop to have an obligation to them.

 

However, it is tough for some older boys to stay active in a troop. I dropped out after Webelos. If I'd become a Boy Scout, I would have stopped at 16. I wasn't going to stay at home every night and have my parents drive me places. I wanted a car. My parents expected me to pay for my car. That meant a job. I worked in a grocery store. Now this was back in the old days, the early and mid 70's. Stores were not open 24 hours a day back then. We were open from 10 AM to 9 PM. Housewives worked the mornings and teens worked the evenings and weekends. No exceptions. If you were a teen, you worked every Friday night and every Saturday or you didn't work. That was two of the busy times of the week and it was all teen hands on deck. That meant you couldn't go on campouts and since you worked evenings, no troop meetings. Unless parents want to buy their kids a car and pay for insurance, gas and maintenance (which happens a whole lot more now than it did in the 70's), you will lose many a boy when he turns 16.

[hacimsaalk12]

well, if i remember reading right, it says in the star, life and eagle ranks, that you must remain active in your troop for ______amount of months as a _________ scout. there is also a req. that says you must hold a posistion for _____ months. i think if you start telling them that they must remain active, they will A.come back and start taking charge, or B. drop out. this is a good way to see who really wants eagle, and who is just here for te fun.

[flowerchild]

I agree with SR540Beaver. We have a few boys like ps56k described, one in particular who I have only seen once in the past 2 years. He stays on the roster because our SM doesn't want to discourage him. He wants him to feel that he can come back anytime. His dues hasn't been paid in 2 years! I tried to explain that this is a bad example for the younger boys. What they see is that they can not participate but still get their Eagle.

 

We have another boy who hasn't been to more then 3 meetings in the past 8 months and has never camped out with us but has just completed all his MB's and is starting his Eagle project.

 

Don't get me wrong, we have a great SM, but sometimes I think he is doing the boys more harm than good while trying to keep them in Scouting. They need to learn to be responsible.

 

Sorry for venting. Guess it's been bothering more than I realized.

 

[Lynda J]

We don't really have this problem. Our last Eagle is gone. But the other older boys are still very active. We have started breaking out all boys 1st Class and above into a seperate meeting so they can totally work on badges. The other boys I take and we are working on rank. We also give our older boys a challenge to help on three points of rank for younger boy. One boy that will hopefully soon be Eagle plans on staying on as a JASM.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Program, program, program! You need a program for these guys. Give them the chance to do some more adventurous things. Encourage them to lead the troop, not fade from the troop. If the SPL truly is the top leader in the troop, most 15-16 year old kids will jump at the chance to play that role. Perhaps you're not letting them lead enough. This might not be the case, but it does throw up a red flag.

 

Get them involved in teaching younger scouts. Most 15-16 year olds that I know love to be the center of attention. Being the older, cooler, more knowledge scout gives them a big boost to the ego.

 

Currently, our SPL is a 7th grader too. But that's because our troop is only two years old, and we only have two guys that are older than that. (One doesn't want to be SPL and the other had too many conflicts this spring to run).

[ps56k]

bummer - typed & submitted a nice long reply - but it never got posted ???

---

dropping from roster -

Our Troop had "scout dollars" from various fundraisers, and the account was used for renewal. However, some scouts had a negative balance! The treasurer moved to another state, and took forever to get the books entered. The CC thought all of this was ok, until a new CC came in, tossed the old treasurer and stopped the insanity. The roster was cleaned up.

16 - yeah - school, girls, cars, work, etc -

It's tough to add Scouting to the mix.

For the 14+ yr old scouts, a CREW was formed to entice them to stay with Scouting... About 20 Scouts were stripped from the Troop for the Crew, and now only 3 come to their meetings/outings anyway. Yup, the 3 families that wanted to go off and do other things beyond "helping" the Troop formed the Crew.

So - the Troop is now just the 3rd and 4th year Webelos grouping of kids that don't quite fit. They may be a little ADHD, a little outta shape and rollie pollie, a little over-protected, a little too geeky, etc.

It is great to have a Troop that accepts and builds these kids/Scouts, but it gets old being the Charity Troop that accepts whatever to "retain" the Scout.

As far as 15-16 yr olds wanting to lead... maybe - but not if it involves going to a PLC meeting, and creating a meeting/camping plan, and then trying to actually accomplish something vs just poking the fire, fighting with sticks, or whatever. Being a boy-leader involves work, and these kids don't want any part of it -

As far as our son, we'll see what happens after the summer, and if he will get his 2 remaining Eagle req MB's + Eagle Project. At some point, after being with the JLTC/NYLT and Jamboree crowd, you want to find other Scouting "peers" and not just be a Scouting baby sitter every year.

 

[eagle90]

What do you offer these high schoolers? Do you have a HIGH ADVENTURE activity for them EVERY summer? That is what keeps them active and coming back. Make it exciting, make it Super, make it something the younger scouits look forward to doing as they become older. White Water Rafting, Backpacking, Sea Base, Canoeing, Houseboating, etc. etc. etc.

[flowerchild]

How can you offer High Adventure to them if they don't come to the meetings to hear about it? And if they do come, they don't want to do the planning that goes along with it.

[ps56k]

That's why the Crew was established. Yes, they have gone skiing, week cruise on a sailboat, BWCA, rafting, etc... and how again does this help the Troop with gaining an experienced SPL at meetings ? The Troop now has a Philmont trip this summer, and it will be interesting to see how the 8 scouts handle the trek... Star & Life Scouts having to re-learn their Tenderfoot scouting skills. For us, the SPL is just the senior "position of rotation" vs "position of responsibility".

[John-in-KC]

DOES THE TROOP plann, develop, and execute a high adventure?? EVERY YEAR???

 

We all seem to think that because Philmont has a minimum age of 14, that is the acceptable minimum age for outings.

 

Baloney.

 

Scouting war story: I was 12 on my first BSA 50 miler, out in the old San Fernando Valley Council (long since the Western LA Council). Did my second at 13 and hiked part of the John Muir Trail at 14.

 

Three Sundays from now, the SPL is going to report back to my troop committee on where the youth want to High Adventure for summer 2006. That will start the program planning process for the next year. SM and I already know what he's going to tell us. We're working on the program and support guidance we're going to give through the SPL to the PLC.

 

BTW... we got the idea of inviting the SPL to certain troop committee meetings from the Fast Start tape!

 

Bottom Line: Have an interesting program. Let the youth buy into the program through the decisionmaking process.

 

PS: Quite a few of the SPLs I've known through the years were 14 when it was their turn.

 

YIS(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[scoutldr]

If you don't expect anything from these older guys, that is what you will get. I tell my guys when they make first class that they are now expected to be teachers, mentors and leaders. Merit Badges are expected to be worked on their own or at Summer Camp. During troop meetings they are teaching and leading.

[hops_scout]

The excuse that they are too busy is just that----an EXCUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

A 16 year old has to make his own choices. If Scouting isnt one of them, too bad for them. They dont deserve to be able to just come back at a moment's notice and expect the Eagle badge.

 

I am currently 16. I play 3 sports at the high school level. I understand the fact that those those activities can pull you away at times, but not ALWAYS. Also, I'm on a subcommittee planning the "Mock" at prom time. There's a meeting a week. Next, I'm an honors student ranked in the top 25% in my class. That includes 3 math/science classes, English, and spanish. Next year I will have a schedule including physics, trigonomotry, english, college US history, and spanish III as well as an additional social studies class.

My next priority goes to the Bulldog Technology Production Club. I am the secretary of the club. I spend quite a bit of time either photographing or editing pictures as well as uploading them to the internet. In fact, I may possibly be making trips to two games tomorrow to shoot pics. And as many as 3 games on Saturday.

Right now, I am serving as the Senior Patrol Leader of Troop 323. I am also nearly in charge of the constructing High Adventure patrol. This summer, I will be attending the National Jamboree. This will require me to miss our team football camp as well as additional weight lifting and running.

 

Finally, I have a job as well. It isnt much, but it is still a job.

 

Priorities are where it all starts. They need to turn the video games off, avoid the parties, etc

 

(Sorry for what may seem like a rant or whatever you may see it as)

[Sovremenny]

Good post guy above me. I had a busy schedule during high school, but I stayed active in scouting. It's all about what you want.

 

I didn't work a job, but I traded on Ebay and made a decent amount of money to pay for my hobby of wargaming (airsoft). I was senior patrol leader during the time and came to almost all the meetings and still had little trouble getting a very high GPA.

 

However, I had to give up my Junior Prom with a girl who really hates me now. I was called a loser for a while but oh well, I got into a good college for what I did and I don't regret it one bit.

[SR540Beaver]

ps56k,

 

I think you fell into the trap that has been discussed numerous times in this forum......starting a crew. Instead of starting a Venturing Crew, you could have created a Venture Patrol within the troop. They could do seperate high adventure activities while the younger scouts do the more "traditional" younger boy activites. It is simply running two different programs within the same unit. Kind of like one table playing chess and the other table playing checkers. Everyone is still in the same room and playing games, just different games. You could have retained your older boys for leadership and training younger boys while still providing them with an exciting older boy program. I see no need for existing units to create Crews and siphon off all of their experienced scouts. Start a Crew where none exists. Leave a standing unit alone and create a Venture Patrol.