Camping, What Counts?

[nndawson]

Hi,

 

I am a new committee chairman and have inherited a controversy centered around camping, specifically SC requirement 2a and FC requirement 3 and the Camping merit badge requirement 9a.

 

All of the scout leaders have held the position that camping is done with the troop/patrol or can be done with the family if the purpose is specifically for helping the boy with scouting. Furthermore, the camping is to be done, as stated in the camping merit badge requirements under the sky or in a tent, meaning no RVs, tent trailers, or backyard camping, etc. Either way the campout is to be pre-approved by the Scout Leader.

 

We have a parent who has two sons in the unit, all three of which are very active in OA. This parent is of the opinion that the standard set in the camping merit badge requirements is just for that merit badge and does not apply to the SC and FC requirements. He feels that any type of camping can fulfill the latter requirements, for the boy is his standard.

 

I understand that for some boys to pass of either of the requirements, that exceptions can and should be made, but in our unit this is not the case. Every boy is healthy and can sleep in a tent or under the start.

 

As I read the requirements I tend to agree with the Leaders. Since I am the CC and part of my responsibility is to interpret National and Local policies to the troop. I have been asked to resolve this. Now on to my questions:

 

* Are my interpretations final, or is there an appeal process? If so where does this end?

* How do other units view this?

* What counts, and who says what counts?

 

Any input will be helpful, and much appreciated.

 

NND

[Lynda J]

Rank Requirements for Second Class and First Class are pretty clear that they are to be troop or patrol activities.

 

Requirements for Camping Merit Badge are a little less clear.

But the Merit Badge Counselor MUST sign of on any of it. So if that counselor is not confortable with what the scout has done he should not sign off of the requirement.

 

I honestly thing the nature of the requirement is that the scout camp with the troop or patrol

[EagleInKY]

Lynda gave you a great answer. The rank requirements are all about being active with the troop and patrol. For example, the 2nd class requirement clearly states "Since joining, have participated in five separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), two of which included camping overnight." There is no way a family campout can be interpreted to be a "troop/patrol activity".

 

As Lynda said, the Camping requirement is a little more vague. "Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched (long-term camp excluded)." The fact that they left the words "with your troop or patrol" out leads me to believe that non-scouting camping experiences that meet the other requirements are acceptible. But ONLY if the MB Counselor agrees to accept them.

 

As Committee Chairman, I don't see either of these as being your issue to resolve. The rank advancement issue should be clear and communicated by the Scoutmaster with the backing of the Advancement Chairman. The Camping MB issue should be communicated as a decision made by the MB Counselor. You just need to stand firm according to the rules, which are pretty clear in this case.

[hotdesk]

As being a member of my Lodge's LEC (as a Chapter Chief) for the Order of the Arrow, we have talked about this (for the purpose of OA). It was finally decided (after input from our Policy/Rules Advisor) that it is the final call of the Scoutmaster. If the Scoutmaster wants to count (going to the extreme) sleeping at the Sheraton as camping then that his all on him.

 

However, as far as your question, I would sit down with your Scoutmaster and Advancement Coordinator and determine what should count for camping (for Rank Advancment and Order of the Arrow). You alone should not make the call because scouting is a thing of communication and team work between the CC, SM, and members of the Committee.

[nldscout]

This is a SM's call as to what counts not CC.

 

Hotdesk,

According to the National OA this is always a SM decission, so your LEC wasted a lot of time debating a rule that already was in place.

 

[Bob White]

How about following the Scouting program as it is in the Boy Scout Handbook, since that is the resource material for the scout and has the explainination for each requirement?

 

What the father thinks is not relevant to the policies of the BSA which tells you that you cannot add to or subtract from the requirements of the BSA.

 

Since you are asking about rank requirements what a mert badge says doesn't matter.

 

The requirement for Second Class 2A says very clearly "troop or patrol" campout.

2b says that while on that campout sleep in a tent YOU have pitched. It does not say an RV or trailer it says tent.

 

The closer you follow the BSa program the fewer problems you will have. Rather than decide by opinion why not decide by the BSA program?

 

BW

[FScouter]

"If the Scoutmaster wants to count (going to the extreme) sleeping at the Sheraton as camping then that his all on him."

 

I would hope that troops or patrols don't camp at the Sheraton, thus that doesn't count as camping for rank requirements.

 

I would doubt that the Sheraton offers tents, (to be pitched by the customers) nor offers beds under the stars, thus the Sheraton doesn't count for the merit badge either.

 

Similarly, since trailers and RV's are not tents pitched nor under the stars, they cannot count for the merit badge. And unless the troop or patrol camps in trailers and RV's, that wouldn't count for rank requirements either.

 

Doesn't the Scoutmaster generally "pre-approve" troop or patrol campouts anyway? What kind of troop or patrol campout would take place without the Scoutmaster knowing about it??

 

As Bob said, MB requirements have zip to do with rank requirements.

 

[falcon93]

FScouter should visit the rogue troop in my district.......i think they have their own "troop wing" at the Shearaton......if the boys here "ok time for supper" - they look up and say "dad, whats on the grill"........

 

 

[acco40]

When filling out the activities section in TroopMaster, there is a box that can be checked on whether or not to include the camping (toward advancement?). The 2nd Class requirements is self explanatory. For the OA, which just has a "number of nights for camping" including short term and long term, the answer is a little more vague. Our previous Scoutmaster did not count any cabin camping for "credit" toward the OA requirement. The current SM (me) has. Both of us are correct. To count or not to count for the purpose of the OA lies with the discretion of the Scoutmaster.

[SR540Beaver]

nldscout,

 

You might want to hold up on the "it's the SM's call". While I agree that the SM is in charge of administering the boy side of the program, he is recruited by the CC and answers to the CC. Note that he should attend the committee meeting to bring a report, but is not a "voting" member of the committee. The pecking order of a unit according to the BSA is IH, COR, CC, SM. To me, the SM and CC are basically counterparts and compliment each other, but the CC is head of the unit. Any conflict in an element of the program should be discussed and resloved between them. But the CC runs the show in a perfect BSA world.

[anarchist]

FOR RANK- It is nobodies call...Camping in a tent?under the stars... with the unit or patrol..thats what it says.... (no "should" or "may"'s... no wiggle room)! For merit Badge ...in a tent you help pitch...not in a hotel room or RV and only one week at summer camp....(someone else pitched those tents)

 

Where is the 'call' in all this?....'for the boys' is not good justification to waive a requirement...

 

Even patrol camping requires a plan and approval of the SM/ASM corp...so perhaps, if you back yard was big enough...it could be snaked in with and approved plan....

 

appeals...anyone can appeal anything if they want to go to district, council or national... to be heard...and district/council caves on lots of stuff....just do your best...

 

Remember you are the head of a committee....not a dictator (benevolent or other-wise) and committees should work by consensus ...you are not Roosevelt and the buck really doesn't stop at the CC (most days anyway)

 

As to the who is 'boss' (testosterone contest)...in the end it is the CO/IH not the CC or SM...On most program questions the CO will listen and back the SM if push came to shove...Remember good SMs are scarce as hens teeth...CCs are viewed by CO's, as nice people but interchangable with other committee members (we all look alike don't we....it's a joke, folks...).

 

and oh yes, FScouter...the Sheraton only stopped unit 'suite camping' a few years ago...seems LNT fire techniques were too hard on the carpets and the cat holes were too unsightly! LOL