Patrol Leaders Council - no direction?

[vrooman]

Hello,

 

I have spent some time looking over all the great information here, and I may have missed this question if it has come up before. Anyway, we have a very new group of boys in our troop; we are without any experienced boy leaders. We had them take on their first patrol leaders council just recently, and we are letting them run the show. We try and avoid influencing them, but it appears that they need some guidance. Are there any suggestions as to how we can make this their program, and still keep things from falling apart in front of them?

 

Vrooman

 

[NIscouter]

I would recommend that you start by making sure the boys know what a successful PLC is all about, give the boys the tools to succeed. You could have the adults stage a PLC meeting. I would also have the SM work closly with the SPL on planning the PLCs, and have the SM sit in on the PLCs for a few months. You should also get the SPL and PLs involved in a troop level JLT and get your adult leaders trained ASAP. Also, read the patrol method forum, lots of good stuff to help you there.

[Eagledad]

Yes. First I think the number one biggest problem Ive seen with PLC meetings, and all meetings in fact, are not teaching the scouts how to use an agenda. An agenda helps the SPL see on paper what he wants to happen in the meeting. If the meeting gets a little out of control or the SPL looses track, which WILL happen, he only has to look at the agenda to get back on track. Such a simple thing, but most troops dont do it. So first go to the Scout shop and get you and your SPL a SPL Handbook. Use the books together. There is a good agenda in the book. If cost is and issue, give me a call. By the way, by the end of our JLTC course, the scouts personally write over 18 agendas.

 

The other part of your question I think is where the adults fit. If your scouts are very young like eleven or twelve, they should still have the responsibility of leading the whole meeting. But I personally think the meetings should be short because their age maturity isnt really ready for a long meeting. One suggestion to help is our Troop does a 30-minute meeting before each Troop meeting. That breaks up the big one-month meetings the National suggests. It has worked very well for us even with 17-year-old SPLs. But that is a personal preference. Also, that gives you four times more opportunities to teach and for them to practice.

 

Even with young scouts, the adults must design the meeting as if 17 year olds ran it. What will happen is as the scouts mature, they need to be given higher expectations of performance. If your meeting is designed for a 12 year old, they will out grow the meeting quickly. Instead you want a format that a 12 year old leads but still use when he is 17.

 

Use the SPL Handbook to plan out the meeting. It will look something like; Reading of the minutes, officer reports or Patrol leader reports, old business, new business and SM minute. Help the SPL learn what goes in each place. Again, not too much for the young guys, but enough they get their business done in reasonable time for their maturity. The agenda should be challenging for all ages, but as they learn to master it, add more to it. I found 14 to 15 years of ages is when they handle a full program agenda.

 

Until they get to that maturity, the SM must learn how to fill in the blanks. That is help fill in enough of the meeting gaps so enough gets accomplished that the boys see how the meeting sets the agenda for the rest of the program. The SM should never take over for the SPL in such a way that he takes the SPLs leadership away. Instead, ask the SPL for permission to add to the present subject. In that way, you have not reduced his leadership because you had to take over; you instead gave him honor of his leadership by asking for permission on the floor.

 

You will have to help him a lot at first because boys just arent use to this much control of a meeting. But as he gains confidence, four meetings, he will need less of your help. I always left the room for a few minutes to give him full control. At first they loss control of the meetings, but we would then come up with ideas of how to control the group. This is why I like weekly meetings. You get a lot more time to teach and practice, both for the adults and the scouts.

 

Another problem every troop runs into is getting ideas. I found that young scouts seem to hold back with ideas, so the SM needs to pop a few of his own and then teach the art of asking a scout what he thinks of that idea, and what idea he has. Several of my SPL caught on to this quickly and started using the same trick. Once one scout starts blurting ideas, usually other follow. Dont shut any ideas down, but instead encourage the scouts habit of writing them down on the board. Then eventually let them see the good ideas over the bad one.

 

This is a lot. Am I going in the right direction? Does this help?

 

The adult side of this is a lot of fun once you get the hang of it.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[John-in-KC]

I do not think it unreasonable for the SM to give "left and right range limits" to the PLC.

 

The Committee can also give the SM reasonable guidance: "With gas prices at $2 a gallon, we desire the youth not select a campground more than 90 miles from our meeting site. If they do, they need to have something truly special that can only be done at the site."

 

Yes, that's a planning constraint. It reflects that fact that the leaders driving are not made of money or time. The constraint gives the PLC latitude ... PLC is not REFUSED an activity; it has to know why the troop wants to go "outside the bubble."

 

Another trick I've seen work is 1 on 1 time (or two deep on one) with the SPL and ASPL before AND AFTER a PLC. Teaching by close mentoring .. and then asking him afterward "What went right, and we SUSTAIN? What could have been better, and needs IMPROVEMENT?"

 

Sustain/improve give the adult leader an opening to teach processes that work from the grown-up world.

 

After all, we're trying to teach all these youth to be a functional teams.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[vrooman]

All,

 

You honestly dont know how convenient it is to know that I have all of your experience to use as a resource. I will actually share your comments directly with our SPL, so he understands that our efforts to offer suggestions, or provide ideas are not intended to derail the Boy Run ideals, but to offer support as per the methods of scouting via Adult Association. The hard part is to judge exactly how much slack we can supply at this point as we are still on the learning curve and only partially through with some of the training programs. Things dont seem to be running as smoothly as the next troop down the roads program, but any idea as to when you all think we will be there?

 

Vrooman

 

[EagleInKY]

Things dont seem to be running as smoothly as the next troop down the roads program, but any idea as to when you all think we will be there?

 

We're in a similar situation. I'd like to say that you will be there in exactly ## months, ## days. But it's just not that easy. Every group of boys is different. One thing is for sure, the road to boy leadership is never-ending. Once you think you are there, you'll have some turnover (older boys leave, newer boys come in) and you're working with it all over again. But, as it becomes a culture in your troop, it will begin to work smoother.

 

This is our first year of really letting go of the reigns. It's been quite a challenge for me. Many times I want to step in, but I hang back and see how they handle it. Every once in a while I step in, but I prefer to do it off to the side. For example, one of my older scouts (who is quite immature) has been giving the leaders a tough time the last few weeks. I pulled him off to the side this past week and made it VERY CLEAR that he needed to shape up.

 

Many good suggestions posted here, and I don't have any new to add. Here are the ones that I think are most effective for your (and my) situation:

 

- 1-on-1 time with the SPL. Give him lots of coaching about what goes right and what doesn't. I've also assigned one of our ASMs to be a coach for the senior leadership. He's very insightful and a good businessman/leader, so he gives them some very good, solid and direct feedback.

 

- Agendas! Getting boys to use them is a tough task. But it makes everything go much more smoothly. Here's a place where I still help. The boys prepare the troop meeting plan, but I still put the final pieces of it together. I'm planning on eventually transitioning out of that. As for the PLC, the SPL now runs it on his own. But I still interject comments throughout. I hope to become quieter as time goes by.

 

- Impromptu PLC meetings as they are needed. We do this nearly every week. Usually it's just standing in the corner after the troop meeting making sure everything is good for the next week.

 

- While your boys are still young, use adults in your meetings to augment the work for the senior boys. If you put everything on the shoulders of a few older boys, you might overload them. I try to put as much on them as I think they can handle, plus a little more. Anything left over, we adults try to help with.

 

- Mock (adult-run) PLC Meeting as part of JLT. This has been a good experience, especially for the boys who have not been in a PLC meeting.

 

 

Barry - "By the way, by the end of our JLTC course, the scouts personally write over 18 agendas. " Just curious. What types of agendas do they prepare? 18 per scout?

 

[Eagledad]

>>Barry - "By the way, by the end of our JLTC course, the scouts personally write over 18 agendas. " Just curious. What types of agendas do they prepare? 18 per scout?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Ask the Scouts to Plan, ask for the Committee's approval and support or revise, carry out the plan, evaluate the activity. Failure breeds success. Real planning teaches an understanding of Real responsibility and is Real fun.

FB

[Lynda J]

If as adults we have an idea for a troop activity we sit down with the SPL and discuss it. He then takes it to he PLC for discussion. Sometimes they like it sometimes they don't.

You might also talk to another troop that has a strong PLC and see if you could come and observe.

So any time with boys seeing teaches them better that telling.