Cub Scout Program Helps - Yay or Nay

[CubsRgr8]

Its Me, IMHO, you're way off base, so if you were in my pack, I'd be helping you lace up those hiking boots.

 

The Pack Committee recruits the den leaders, who are then approved by the COR or IH. If the Pack Committee decides that den leaders must follow the monthly themes, even to the point of following the Program helps explicitly, what's to discuss? I see it as no different than requiring den leaders to get trained, or hold weekly den meetings, or to attend pack meetings, or attend summer camp, etc.

 

The Pack Committee needs to determine den leader qualifications and responsibilities, recruit den leaders who agree to meet them, and then support them so they can do their jobs. If the Pack Committee wants to let the den leaders do it anyway they want, that's fine, too. But den leaders MUST be willing to follow the Pack Committee's lead.

[5570xr2]

Thanks for your opinion. But just as Program Helps are optional and the pack program can be run as DLs see fit, the committee sometimes has to step in and help define the guidelines. Lately, our attrition rate has been HUGE. We just lost 50% of youth and adults on recharter. Kids are losing interest and adults are burning out. Why? I'm just looking for ways to 'make the pack go'. Yes, the committee usually stays out of the day-to-day, but I think at this point, we need to get involved for the benefit of all involved and longevity of the pack.

[fotoscout]

Scoutnut nailed it, the Program Helps are just that, HELP.

 

Sure you can try to run your program by following the Program Helps religiously, but you could do better things with your time. Pull things from the book that are worth while and doable for you! Remember, not all of us are the same. Something that works for you may not work for me. The Program Helps represents an ideal program where everything falls into place and everyone does their share and then some, including the parents. It also requires weekly meetings!

 

This may be a generalization but Ive found that Packs, who become consumed with the themes, have trouble advancing their boys. There is a simple fact that most parents will accommodate a few advancement requirements at home. But they will not accommodate more than a few. That means that we as DLs need to do advancement work at den meetings. For most of us, we cant do both theme and advancement work at den meetings. So you have to make a choice.

 

Some would tell you that advancement is the Parents responsibility; others would say that its the DLs responsibility. I think the answer really lies somewhere in between. If your boys are having fun doing advancement work at their den meetings I would tell you..leave well enough alone, It aint broke, dont fix it!

 

[Its Me]

To my detractors I can say that I run a solid den filled with energy, enthusism and learning without using the program helps. Our pack seems more den focused than others as the CC has little input into the running of our dens. She is a great person and in my opinion does a fantastic job running the pack. To the committee control freaks out there we are both glad we do not share the same pack.

 

 

5570xr2, I don't know why your pack is suffering. The program helps and unifying the pack and den meetings will likely not be enough. Scouting should fun with a purpose and the helps just aren't going to be able to stop the slide.

 

The only thing I may recommend is the great outdoors. Get the dens to have more outdoor based activities, have more pack outdoor events. You know everyone seems to likes hiking. And email, email 4 weeks in advance, then a week and maybe even the day before. Its marketing for sure but its effective at getting turn out.

 

Happy trails

Its Me

 

 

[Cubmaster-Fred]

CubsRgr8,

 

First I would just like to say that while the COR, IH, and CC along with the rest of the MC's do recruit and sign up the leaders, it is the Cubmasters responsibility to run the program. The committee's responsibility is to get the CM what they need to make the program happen.

 

Now as a Cubmaster I feel that the DL's need flexibility and leeway to give thier particular boys a grat program. Whether this comes from the program helps or the DL's imagination is totally up to them. As many have said, the book is there to help not dictate.

 

I know that I have 4 DL's who know what they are doing and put on great programs. The boys are having fun and we get at least 1 new boy signed up every month. I do not dictate to them what they should do and neither does the pack committee.

 

Themes are good but not essential. My pack meetings have themes, to keep cohension for decorations, skits, songs and ceremonies. But other than that the dens basically put on thier own programs.

 

But in closing just remember that the CM is responsible for the running of the program.

 

JMHO

 

CMF

[johndaigler]

CMF, The CM definitely should be running the show -- Within parameters set by the Committee. If the Pack Committee says "Themes", I don't see where a DL or a CM gets a vote.

 

Torveaux, you can find the 05/06 themes in the 04/05 book, but all you get are the theme titles. Apparently, the Program Helps doesn't come out till late May - early June. A bit silly since, most of us are beginning the planning process now -- AND the themes rotate through every couple of years so the Program Helps with some minor editing is really just sitting there waiting to be published and distributed.

 

No disrespect, It'sMe, but I definitely disagree. CC's have responsibilities to the Pack as a whole - Your approach would get in the way of improving the whole Pack. My guess is that all DLs in your Pack are not all so independant and Good. The trick of course is to get you to see the value - without creating inconvenience and conflict.

 

In reality, the reasons for concern depend on the DL. Good DLs may or may not need to use all that resource support, but bad DLs do need the support. Remember the themes tie into Roundatable, Boy's Life articles, websites, etc. - many of our support materials.

 

My real concern about GOOD but non-Program-Helps-using DLs is that they grow up and leave. Then what do you have? A Unit without traditions of working together, valuing training, and using the given resources to succeed. Are you so confident that the next DL is going to be GOOD even without the resources and the training?

 

I think Packs are better if they're prepared for the future. The GOOD DL who doesn't see himself as part of the team (tell's a CM or CC to take a hike? ) might be good for the kids he's working with but does nothing to help, in fact endangers, the future of the Pack.

 

In other threads, I've talked about "Stewardship". IMHO, we need to do a better job of preserving our future. The use and sharing of resources, knowledge and experiences helps us from having to reinvent the wheel each month and year. The Program Helps gives us a common language, they offer ideas, options - they aren't mandates. I don't use them word for word and my Wolves don't meet 4 times a month. I pick and I choose, but to ignore them is like ignoring a ten dollar bill on the ground as you walk down the sidewalk. A good Scout may look around and see if they can find the rightful owner, but would you teach your Scout to leave it lying on the ground?

 

Using and sharing our resources helps us weather the valleys of poor leadership - might it put uneccesary restraints on GOOD free-wheeling leaders? Maybe, but I'd expect them to just see it as another challenge. Consider it one more Achievement in the handbook -- Learn to play well with others!

 

BTW, FB, XLNT!

 

jd

[Cubmaster-Fred]

jd,

 

As I said we use themes to plan our pack functions (including the Pack meeting), but they also don't necesarily follow the program helps.

 

As for the planning, the CM and DL's do get a vote. All of the packs leaders are involved in the yearly planning process and therefore have a say. They base the next year on what has worked and what will fit the coming year.

 

Done properly each den should plan out the years ideas and then every one comes together and plans the packs year. The thems do keep the unit tied together but dens should not be limited to just working within the theme.

 

As I have said the CM is responsible for putting on a quality preogram, and the committee is responsible to get the CM what is needed to make this happen.

 

CMF

[johndaigler]

CMF, truly, GOOD CCs, CMs and DLs find it pretty easy to work together, so in a successful unit much of this seems to happen naturally. But, it's risky for the organization to take itself for granted.

 

The way you explained it, Dens plan their year, then the Pack plans its year. For me, that seems backward. We set out the Pack's calendar and Themes (all with DL input - though, if it comes down to it, the Committee makes Pack decisions, and DLs do not get VOTES - though playing that card seems frought with consequences!) and support the DLs as they plan their year accordingly. We don't always use the "Program Helps" Themes but when we stray, we know we're giving up certain resources and prebuilt supports.

 

I'm not sure how a DL would see the Pack's Theme as limiting? We don't use the Themes as walls that contain Dens, they're just common threads that tie us together when we gather to celebrate the month's efforts. It's pretty simple for a Den to straddle the line and get where they want to go while still retaining a sense of Pack Team. We don't demand each Den do a particular thing for a Theme, we just say, "Here's this month's common language, whatever you do, learn and speak a bit of it."

 

I think Dens and DLs are the core of the program. But as a CC, I don't think I can just sit back and watch the CM. Most DLs benefit from Pack support and parameters, training and resource sharing. One trick, of course, is supporting and respecting the efforts and responsibilities of the CM. I hope I haven't led you to believe I don't see that as key for a successful CM. I've never meant to minimize the importance of the CM.

 

Again, my worry is for the year after GOOD Leaders (CCs or CMs or DLs or whatever) leave the Unit. Packs that don't develop good customs and traditions, constantly have to rebuild themselves on a more wholesale level. These Packs suffer the hills and valleys of individual leaders - some good, some not so good. The organization can protect itself and its future by developing good habits.

 

That being said, once you've got a good plan and some good traditions, a smart CC knows to let a good CM run with the ball. Likewise, a good CM let's a good DL run. Unfortunately, if you don't have good working habits as an organization, then whenever there's a weak link in the CC-CM-DL chain; the unit, the program and ultimately the boys suffer more than necessary. And, you have to go through the Struggling Pack Blues again!

 

As I have said the CM is responsible for putting on a quality preogram, and the committee is responsible to get the CM what is needed to make this happen.

 

Agreed, but I see the CC as having a more active role in helping the Committee set GOOD Pack goals, policies and parameters (all of which are needed "to make this happen"). It may just be that our Packs are in different developmental places. As CC, if I was less actively involved, our program would revert to its previous lackluster form - even with our talented, caring CM. We're on the verge of becoming GOOD. I'll feel comfortable enough to back off when the traditions and customs of the Pack become self-fulfilling prophecies aimed at continued growth and success.

 

An organization that builds "Stewardship" into its character and framework becomes this self-preserving, self-building, living organism that makes each of us as individuals better, but also, less individually important. GOOD Leaders become better and more effective, POOR Leaders become less damaging - and are helped and supported as they grow toward being GOOD.

 

jd

 

(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

[fgoodwin]

CMF, as a former CC myself, I must admit I lean more toward your position, and I think the Cub Scout Leader Book supports that view.

 

It is the CM & DLs job to "deliver the promise" of Scouting by being responsible for planning and executing the program at the Pack & Den levels.

 

But the CC and MCs do have a role in the program:

 

* The CC conducts the annual pack program

planning conference

 

* MCs "ensure that all Tigers, Cubs & Webelos

receive a year-round, quality program

 

But the responsibility for planning and carrying out the year-round program of activities in the dens lies with the DLs.

 

Now most Packs run best by consensus, so hopefully you don't have Committees out there telling their CMs and DLs its "my way or the highway".

 

Those Committees will soon be looking for new CMs and DLs! If the Committees know so much, then they should step up and be the DLs delivering the program.

 

Again, I say this as a former CC, a former Tiger DL, a former ACM, and currently an ass't WDL.

 

Fred Goodwin

Alamo Area Council

[johndaigler]

I don't think I'm disagreeing with you two Freds, but just to be clear . . .

 

Besides being CC, I'm a Wolf DL and the Pack Trainer.

 

Here's an example of why I intend to be more active as CC than perhaps makes you two comfortable. In the past, the Pack did the following:

 

- only award Bobcat in Nov. and other ranks in Feb. (BnG)

- Dens did not participate in Pack meetings as Dens merely as the audience

- every committee member was also a DL

- Cubs were not allowed to run in the PWD (Jan.), unless their annual dues (due 3/1)were paid for the next year

- Themes were not used at all

- Pack meetings were generally guest speakers, announcements and handing out of participation segment patches

- inactive summers

- no camping

- minimal effort at uniforming

- minimal effort at training leaders

- no one knew what each den was doing - if anything

- no singing, no skits, no campfires . . .

 

I would love to be a CC whose sole purpose was to host monthly leader meetings. I think you'll agree, it would be premature to see myself that way today. With all due respect to CMs everywhere, and to mine in particular, - being responsible for quality program can't and shouldn't be done by the CM alone.

 

jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

[Cubmaster-Fred]

jd,

 

I think I see where our situaitons lie. As you said we are at different stages of our units development. I am also the pack trainer and the ex-wolf leader.

 

I strive to keep good people in place as long as possible. With the help of the committee of course. It is hard to find good people to replace good people, but not impossible.

 

Yes the MC's do definitely have a role, but like I said in support of the CM who is responsible for giving the boys the program they are supposed to get. The CC is reposnsible for helping in finding the leaders, but then is supposed to let them and the CM deliver the program and give them whatever support they need.

 

As for the program planning, I guess i was sleeping when I typed my message. The DL's go over thier previous years plans and make notes of what worked and what didn't, so they can inject these things into the following years programs. I do disagree with you on one point, the DL's do indeed have a vote on the planning of the year. Remember this is not a dictatorship, the DL's need the freedom to run thier own program. One of the CM's jobs is to monitor and ensure the program is being delivered the way it was designed.

 

In closing I think we both are right for the situations we are in. Neither one of us is entirely wrong, just different circumstances.

 

JMHO

CMF

[starwolfmom]

jd--Sounds like you belonged to MY sons' pack! Except for the pinewood derby item, the list you made would describe our pack.

 

I wanted to attend our next committee meeting (all the den leaders and the CM, who is also the CC), but it's the same night as my big boy's Court of Honor, and he's getting Life that night.

 

Guess I'll shoot for the april committee meeting instead.

 

Elizabeth