How to avoid "Eagle Mills"

[acco40]

When visiting a troop, ask if they work on merit badges during troop meetings (they should not). Ask what they (the troop) does to make sure your son will advance (they should not ensure anything - advancement responsibility should lie with the Scout.) Ask them what are the goals of the troop. If it is to help produce Eagle Scouts - run away.

 

The following is something I picked up along the way - possibly from this forum (BW are you the author?). I find it handy and give it to prospective Webelos parents who visit our troop.

 

Some Common Traits of Successful Troops

 

1. Currently trained adults.

 

2. Leaders wear correct uniform.

 

3. Scoutmaster concentrates on training Junior Leaders, and knowing the needs and characteristics of each scout.

 

4. They use the Patrol Method for everything.

 

5. They follow the contents of the Boy Scout Handbook.

 

6. The committee supports the decision of the scouts, they dont make decisions for them.

 

7. They have at least two Assistant Scoutmasters.

 

8. They recognize scouts three times for each advancement.

 

9. They DONT use troop meetings as merit badge classes.

 

10. They plan everything in advance and put it in writing. The difference between a wish and a plan is a plan is written down.

 

11. The only rules they have are that scouts and leaders follow the Scout Oath and Law.

 

12. They get outdoors once a month (even if just for a day event)

 

13. Troop meetings are filled with hands on activities

 

14. New scouts make First Class, First Year.

 

15. They keep in contact with Webelos Dens year round.

 

16. They select leaders they dont recruit them.

 

17. They participate in District and Council events.

 

18. They attend Roundtable.

 

19. Adults smile and play nice together. (If you are not enjoying yourself then neither are the scouts.)

 

[Eagledad]

>>To make this relevant to this thread, a troop with really good retention might produce a lot of Eagles, without being a mill at all.

[Hunt]

I don't have a problem with the list acco40 reprinted, except that I don't see the word "fun" in there anywhere.

 

While I think the methods of Scouting are great, and the closer a unit adheres to them the better--I have to say that there are more important factors when deciding what unit to join. Are the boys having fun? Do the boys try to sell the troop to the visitors--or is it just the adult leaders who do this? Do the visitors feel welcomed and included by the boys from the beginning? While all the things on the other list may be good, they won't automatically create an environment that will be fun and welcoming for your son--a major part of that will depend on chemistry and the character of the boys and adults who make up the unit. I guess I agree that going on a campout is a good idea--but for me, not so much to see what methods are being used, but to see how the members of the unit interact on a personal level.

[acco40]

Hunt - I agree, the "fun" while hard to quantify, should be apparent.

 

One thing I've noticed is that the younger Scouts, especially if they are a tight knit group from a single den, are usually not overly welcomed by the 13-14 yr old boys. No hazing or teasing mind you but in reality just a normal response for boys at that age. Just like in the workplace, if a large group of newcomers rapidly "joins up" there usually is some resentment from those who have been there and they may feel some resentment toward the newcomers.

 

The older older boys (15 and above) don't feel as threatened. Again, another reason I like age based patrols.

[sitrep]

I read this thread with some interest, as I'm an ASM for a Troop that is sometimes accused by others in our district as being a mill. Having a plaque with the eagles on it isnt going to tell you much about the Troop, you are actually going to have to get to know them first. Remember, dont judge a book by its cover.

[ManassasEagle]

Wow - didn't expect such a long thread when I asked the question. Glad it is, though, since there's a ton a good info.

 

Here's one example... when we were seeing if our older boy was interested in Scouts, he joined the closest troop in town. He didn't stick with for but a month or so and I did go to troop meetings with him and here's what I saw...

 

Troop meetings started with a couple of announcements and then everyone broke up for either merit badge work or Boards of Review. The adults just sat around and gabbed. This was pretty much every meeting so I can understand why my son dropped out. This son is now almost 19 so this all happened 8 or so years ago but I think this troop qualified as an "Eagle Mill". Fast forward to the present...

 

I was our Pack Leader for summer camp (Goshen) this past summer. We took 5 Web-I, 5 Web-II, and two 1st-year Boy Scouts. The 1st-years (both in the above mentioned troop) were older brothers of two of the Web-II's. We had a great time (I was exhausted, though, talk about "herding cats"). There was only one sour note in any of the discussions after the trip and that came from a leader in our pack (who did not attend camp) who also happens to be a leader in the troop. He was absolutely incensed that the two Boy Scouts stayed with us in the Webelos camp - he insisted they should have hoofed it over to one of the Boy Scout camps for the week so that they could have worked on Boy Scout advancement.

 

Sound like this particular troop qualifies as an "Eagle Mill"?

[anarchist]

OOOHHH MMMYYYY GAUWDDDD! I think I belong to an Eagle Mill!

 

I've been thinking on this...in the last twelve months we have passed four Eagles...and We have one boy writing his Eagle Project Proposal, One boy in the middle of an Eagle Project and a third in the final stages of his Eagle Project Write up/Report...we must be an Eagle Mill!!

ohmygawdohmygawdohmygawd!...oh wait, most of these boys turned 18 within two-four months of Eagling...only two are under 17...maybe we just kept them in the program long enough that they couldn't avoid being Eagles...guess that sounds a little better...

whew scared myself there for a minute ...

 

I think I need a drink....

[sitrep]

ManassasEagle:

 

So far nothing you have described really sounds like a "mill".

[Torveaux]

I am curious sitrep, how would you define a 'mill'?

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Manassas - Not sure what sitrep is smokin', but the paragraph describing what your son experienced does sound like an Eagle Mill. Assuming that was a regular occurence. If it was that way a few times a year, I would not necessarily call it an Eagle Mill.

 

Now, I don't have an issue with the troop leader wanting the first year scouts to be with the troop for summer camp. It has nothing to do with advancement. It's that now they are a part of a patrol and a troop. That's where they need to be. Not for advancement, but to be a part of their patrol and troop and support them. They'll have plenty of time to spend with their brothers, when they join the troop (or visit as Webelos) in the next couple of years.

[ManassasEagle]

Just to clarify, the troop that the first-years belong to was not involved. They weren't anywhere near summer camp. This leader thought the two scouts should have gone to one of the Boy Scout camps and asked for "provisional status" (not sure if that's the right term).

[sitrep]

I would define an eagle mill as a troop where the adults run everything and spoon feed MBs to the boys to ensure they advance. So far I haven't heard anything that sounds like that. I really doubt one month is long enough to really get to know the troop, at most that is four meeting and one outing. Our troop has fairly regular boards of review, you need them if you have a number of boys that are working on advancement. As for the webelos/scouts at camp I've never heard of webelos taking scouts with them.

[EagleInKY]

My bad Manassas. I misunderstood your statement. Then I agree with you. In fact, it's actually a great thing to do for young scouts to spend time with Webelos. I thought they were doing it instead of being with their troop.

 

Sitrep, while it's true that one month is not a fair enough sampling, this troop certainly "smells" of a Eagle Mill. However, as I've told before, this could describe a few of our troop meetings each year. One thing that may contradict the Eagle Mill "verdict" is that he said that adults mainly stood around and gabbed. In a boy-run troop, that's often the only thing for us to do!

[anarchist]

Boy Scouts can really help at a Webelos summer camp experience...

True story...Two Boy Scouts went along with Den Of Webelos to summercamp a couple of years ago...They were Den Chiefs (and sons of one of the Den Leaders. A Den Leader had major Heart Attack! Air Lifted out! Those Boys scouts helped the remaining Den Leader keep Webelos calm and allowed them to continued on, so the Webelos did not 'loose summer camp experence...EVEN WHILE THEIR FATHER WAS BEING FLOWN TO A HOSPITAL! Brave Lads, Good Scouts, OUTSTANDING EXAMPLES!

[Greeneagle5]

 

The Troop I'm involved in could be called a "textbook" example of an Eagle Mill. It is not Scout -run, tremendous emphasis always placed on MBs and advancements (never pass up a MB session even if it cancels a great 3 day weekend camping opportunity). 2 years ago the Troop had 12 Scouts attain Eagle. The new parents seem to love the "school-like" structured atmosphere, but recruiting has started to suffer, meeting attendance is dropping, and the Older Scout Corps disappears from Troop functions usually soon after their COHs. Not much fun for the older guys, adults included. The "old school" SM is firmly cemented in his position w/ strong COR support (the SM even appoints(knights?) "his" CC). The veteran SM runs the program and sets up the Troop calendar with limited input from youth leadership. Unfortunately for the boys, they miss out on a tremendous amount of Scouting opportunities, life experiences, and leadership responsibilities.

G5