Card games and scouting

[scionofscouting]

A long story short...

Card games like Magic: The Gathering and YU-GI-OH used to be very popular in our troop. When the scoutmaster changed, he quickly banned all games save chess, checkers, and card games played w/ standard playing cards. Being one of the Magic players in the troop, I asked him about the bannings. Not only could he not tell me why the games were banned, he could not tell me anything about the banned games that might warrant a banning. Many of the scouts and a few of the leaders(including myself) believe that the bannings were simply a declaration of power by the scoutmaster to show his authority. I need advice on how to go about trying to get the bannings lifted, since the card games were causing no problems when they were allowed, and it kept the scouts busy.

[FScouter]

"...the card games were causing no problems when they were allowed, and it kept the scouts busy."

 

I'd say we're in a heap of trouble if we need card games to keep Scouts busy.

 

[AK-Eagle]

I don't see a problem with a deck of cards and playing a few friendly hands of rummy, hearts, spades, and yes even poker or blackjack, no gambling of course.

One of the best memories this poor brain can muster is sitting with 3 other scouts in a drenched tent enjoying good conversation and a really cutthroat game of hearts waiting for the thunder storm to play itself out.

 

As for keeping the scouts busy I don't know about you folks but I see a group of scouts playing cards as a group of scouts not getting bored, or homesick. Unless you plan your camp outs entirely to the minute there is going to be some down time and you can only stuff their heads with advancement for so long.

 

Then there is that old joke about having playing cards in your survival pack

 

 

Enough ranting for now

 

Phillip Martin

aka AK-Eagle

Scoutmaster Troop 21

Juneau Alaska

[Its Me]

Wow card games are a problem? Playing card games is wasting time? I can't believe this. Card games new, old, Yu-Gi-oh or regular invovlve the following of specific rules and social order. Two items usually in short supply around boys.

 

I would agree that he was thumping his chest when he made the decisiosn.

 

 

[johndaigler]

scion, great tag and welcome.

 

Hard to solve a problem when you don't know the cause. Perhaps, he can be reasoned with - "When can we earn our cards back? At what times are our cards allowed? Just give me a chance to show you that Yugioh is more complicated and mentally demanding than poker or pinocchle. Can you please explain to me why the 52 card deck is OK, but other decks are not. Are Pinocchle and euchre banned, as well?" . . .

 

Or perhaps, it's about power and the nearest person with a big enough stick is the CC. With all due respect to SMs, near and far, they shouldn't be making Troop policy without the input of the Committee. Perhaps, a conversation with some of the other leaders might help. Just because he's a bully, doesn't mean it's a good idea to become one yourself.

 

Good Luck!

 

jd

[Hunt]

I can think of a number of reasons a leader might want to ban Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh cards. To get them back, you might want to think of how to refute or respond to these:

1. Some boys become so obsessed with them that it distracts from the program.

2. Because the cards have value, it can create problems, with trading, loss, damage, and even theft. (If the SM works in a school, he may have seen schools institute a ban for these reasons.)

3. The cards (arguably) involve the occult. (If your CO is a church, this may be particularly important.)

4. Only boys who have the cards can play, as opposed to regular cards.

[anarchist]

Hunt nailed this one on the head....

 

Our CO (church) had problem with the premise of "magic' so we asked the boys not too...but too often the boys gamble (ie losing cards to each other and then not handling the loss 'well') better let them play ultimate or regular deck of cards during "down time"(best is have something 'outdoorsy' for them to do!

[nldscout]

I can tell you as SM that we forbid these types of card for all the reasons that Hunt has said. Once they start playing they don't want to quit. We have allowed them when we have game nights or special trips, but not regular caming trips.

 

We did this because we had some scouts bring some and they got ruined in a rain storm. Parents were livid cause of the supposed value of the cards. I say supposed, because they are only of value to another player. I wouldn't personnally give you a penny for them.

[Its Me]

 

SM: . Some boys become so obsessed with them that it distracts from the program.

 

Its Me: We have program time and down time. During program times we agree that no card playing should take place. But after activities for the day have wound down a card game can bring the boys together.

 

 

SM: Because the cards have value, it can create problems, with trading, loss, damage, and even theft.

 

Its Me: Boys have their own personal equipment now and are free to trade with one another. It has not been an issue in our troop. And of course value is only true for Yu-Gi-Oh card not standard 52 card decks.

 

SM: The cards (arguably) involve the occult. (If your CO is a church, this may be particularly important.)

 

Its Me: Again we are only talking about Yu-Gi-Oh cards not standard cards. Is it rules or magic that says an Ace trumps a Jack. Same with the monster figures on Yu-Gi-Oh. The game is governed but the rules of play. Each character is assigned an attack value and defense value. I give the kids credit keeping track of all the scoring and gamemanship that goes on.

 

 

SM: Only boys who have the cards can play, as opposed to regular cards.

 

Its Me: I never knew a card game before is was taught to me. Kids love to teach each other games. Heck there are probably two dozen ways to play poker. Consider it a team building activity. And I'll play chess or checkers as soon as someone teaches me those games.

 

 

 

[OneHour]

Yugi-Oh, Pokemon, etc., are different types of card games that are some boys' interest. There has to be a happy medium of coexistence. As long as they are played during the down time, free time, or dead time (rainout), there should not be any harms. I rather have the boys quietly play these card games when it is raining than have them played in the rain and we all have to deal with hypothermia, sickness, etc.

 

(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[Backpacker]

I think it is real easy to pass judgement too quickly in these situations. I see no real harm in card playing of any kind during down time as long as there is no money changing hands and conduct stays in check. Heck I remember when I was a kid in scouts some boys snuck cigaretts, booze and Playboys on campouts, card playing is mild in comparison and is at least out in the open. My patrol leaders do a great job on outings keeping things under control.

[SR540Beaver]

I'm pressed for time and admittedly have not read all the other posts. Not that I am against the games, but I can think of a couple of reasons. When my son was a Webelos, he had his Yu-Gi-Oh cards stolen at a den meeting. I had purposely hidden them inside the hood of my jacket sitting on the chair next to me. I left the meeting for about two minutes and BAM, they were gone. We did later get them back from the boy who stole them. The other problem is how engrossed many players get in the game. Last year at summer camp, we had boys who avoided anything and everything at camp in due to marathon sessions of game playing. Think Gameboys and electronic devices here. It circumvents the purpose of the outing. You can play at home, you can't camp or hike at home. The other issue we had was a number of our scouts started carrying magic wands in their belts and wore cloaks around camp and even to campfires. That was just a tad TOO much for me. One of the scouts in question was a 17 1/2 year old PL.

[firstpusk]

"I can tell you as SM that we forbid these types of card for all the reasons that Hunt has said. Once they start playing they don't want to quit..."

 

I was SM a few years back we had concerns about Magic cards interfering with program and chores. Some of the SAs wanted me to take the step you did. I sat down with the SPL and we had a talk about how we could deal with the situation. He bounced a couple ideas. I told him to see what he could do. He called a quick PLC. The game was limited - by the boys to time after program was completed up till lights out.

 

I think that the boys are very capable of making the correct decision if we let them see the lay of the land and allow them to decide how to handle the situation.

 

On the issue of the CO putting their foot down on Magic cards, I havent seen a case of this happening. Perhaps if these cards are allowed to overwhelm the entire program, the CO might tell the troop no Magic cards allowed. In that case, I know that I have failed to guide the boys in proper use of time. I told my SPL at the time of my story that I didnt take time off work or give up my weekends to have the boys play Magic instead of doing the scout stuff we had on the agenda. I felt that scout skills were important. He saw my point and dealt with the boys and the Magic cards effectively.

 

I know that I wouldnt SM for a troop that wouldnt do anything other than Magic. I also wouldn't SM for a CO that stepped in to ban the game. They aren't letting the program do its magic.

 

[Hunt]

I can imagine that some COs might object to any "occult" practices--ie, Ouija boards, "seances," or Magic Cards. Some parents might also have concerns.

[firstpusk]

"I can imagine that some COs might object to any occult practices--ie, Ouija boards, seances, or Magic Cards. Some parents might also have concerns."

 

If they view it that way, that is their prerogative. However, I think that viewing Magic cards as the same as a sance is more than a bit of a stretch. In fact, I would say it is irrational in the extreme. However, if that is the deeply held religious belief of the CO, they are welcome to it. Respect for the religious beliefs of others is part of the Scout Law and I am willing to give my CO their due. If I am not required to act in a petty or irrational manner toward my scouts by the CO, they need a new SM.

 

On a final note, if a new SM comes in and immediately makes such a decision without explanation, without discussion and without participation of the scouts in the process, how does this model the concepts of a boy run troop and shared leadership to my scouts? The example given by scionofscouting, the SM provided no explanation for HIS decision nor could he even give a POSSIBLE reason for banning the games in question. If it is prompted by the fear of the occult or any other reason, it should be explained to the scout and discussed with the scouts especially the boy leadership. You may feel that this is the appropriate way to run a troop. I feel that the manner that this situation was handled was unacceptable.