1st post here, I have several questions...

[BSAChaplain]

Here's my 1/50th of a dollar's worth.

 

The circumstances around these Eagle BOR's sound suspicious to me. Fortunately, if I understand the system right, any Eagle Packet must be sent to National and the records are reviewed there. I believe it travels through Council and possible Distirct on the way to National.

 

Somewhere along the way, any inconsistencies such as an imporperly convened or staffed BOR SHOULD be noticed. (not a guarantee, but certainly a good check system.)

[EagleInKY]

Chap - It won't be caught. Have a wrong date on a MB or rank advancement, they'll catch it. Have a signature in the wrong place, they'll catch it. Don't turn in all the paperwork, they'll catch it. Have a friend's mom sit on the Eagle BOR, they'll have no way of knowing.

 

In our district, the DAC chairs almost all Eagle BORs. He tries to get at least one or two "detached" scouters. These would be people from other units, often Scoutmasters or Eagles. He tries to get one person from the community. And, the scout's troop usually offers a member. This is supposed to be someone that is not real close to the scout, but it gives them a "familiar" face in the room. I don't know if that's really the reason, but I kinda think it has something to do with it. Plus, if there's any issues from the BOR, someone associated with the troop can help explain what happened.

[scoutldr]

The important thing to remember is that Eagle boards are not conducted the same nation-wide. In the Council in which I serve, the EBOR is a unit function, just like the other BORs. It does require a District Rep present, which is usually someone from the District Committee...I have frequently filled that role. In addition to myself and the Unit CC, there are usually several other members present, some of which are chosen by the Scout. These have been family friends, religious leaders, former unit leaders, teachers, etc. Frequently, these people have no scouting background, but they do have a pre-conceived notion of what an Eagle Scout should be. Rarely, are they off the mark by much. The first 30 minutes are spent explaining the BOR process, reviewing letters of recommendation, the Scout's personal goals statement, Eagle application, and project notebook. As the District rep, I serve to answer questions that the other Board members may have about the process, explain that we can not add to the requirements, it's not a "retest", etc. I also have a copy of suggested questions that I have downloaded from the internet to give the other members an idea of what type of questions can be asked. I also remind them to ask "open ended" questions that cannot be answered with a "yeah" "Nah" or grunt. Usually, they "get it". Then the SM brings the Scout in, introduces him to the Board, and then leaves (or stays to observe, if the Scout requests it). If everyone else is shy, I start the questioning, and the others then follow my lead and join in. I have yet to have a less than enjoyable and rewarding experience.

 

Bottom line is, the situation you described does not seem too odd to me, albeit a little disorganized. It's also rare to do four at one time, although there's nothing wrong with it as long as the process is not shortchanged for each Scout.

[BSAChaplain]

Oh how sad it is to have my illusions washed away.

 

In the council that I earned my Eagle (many moons ago) The BOR was provided by the council and contained 3 men only one of which I had ever met before. As I recall at least two are Eagle Scouts themselves.

 

In the current council I am in, all Eagle BOR have been chaired (until recently) by a well known local judge also and Eagle himself. He is known for holding a very high standard. This task has just been divided out to the district level, but the benchmark has been set.

 

I guess I made the tragic error or assuming that every council held such high standard. And I will continue to believe, unless shown otherwise, that the majority of Scouting does.

 

I suppose that's one of the reasons for being on a forum like this is to see how the program works across the country. As someone with vast youth experience but limited adult experience it is quite valuable.

 

Thanks for the enlightenment.

[willhi1979]

In the District I am in, the project approval process is also handled inside the District. By accomplishing the project, a scout should have demonstrated leadership, and I think that the Board can use that as a measuring tape for the Scout's leadership skills. I have heard of big projects being rejected because they were not approved prior to start.

 

Also, on the question about Eagle being taken back. The Eagle rank can be taken away by the National BSA Executive Board. There is a specific procedure for this, and it is reserved for the most extreme cases.

[rpushies]

An interesting thread of discussion, as is often the case taking a trip back to the basics helps keep things on track and in focus. The basic basics of Scouting are the Aims: of Scouting: Participating Citizenship, Character Development and Emotional & Physical Fitness. There are four steps in the Boy Scout advancement procedure: learning, testing, reviewing, and recognition.

 

What should the board of review process accomplish?

"A periodic review of the progress of a Scout is vital in the evaluation of the effectiveness of the Scouting program in the unit. The unit committee can judge how well the Scout being reviewed is benefiting from the program. The unit leader can measure the effectiveness of his or her leadership. The Scout can sense that he is, or is not, advancing properly and can be encouraged to make the most of his Scouting experience.

 

Not only is it important to review those Scouts who have learned and been tested for a rank, but also to review those Scouts who have shown no progress in their advancement over the past few months.

 

The members of the board of review should have the following objectives in mind when they conduct the review.

 

To make sure the Scout has done what he was supposed to do for the rank.

To see how good an experience the Scout is having in the unit.

To encourage the Scout to progress further.

 

The review is not an examination; the board does not retest the candidate. Rather, the board should attempt to determine the Scout's attitude and his acceptance of Scouting's ideals. The board should make sure that good standards have been met in all phases of the Scout's life. A discussion of the Scout Oath and Scout Law is in keeping with the purpose of the review, to make sure that the candidate recognizes and understands the value of Scouting in his home, unit, school, and community."

 

This is taken directly from Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures. This publication also makes these points about the Eagle Rank board of review.

 

"Eagle Scout Boards of Review

The Boy Scouts of America has placed the Eagle Scout board of review in the hands of either the troop, team, crew, or ship committee or the district or council committee responsible for advancement. The council will decide and promulgate which method or methods may be used.

 

The board of review for an Eagle candidate is composed of a minimum of three members and a maximum of six members, 21 years of age or older. These members do not have to be registered in Scouting, but they must have an understanding of the importance and purpose of the Eagle board of review. At least one district or council advancement representative shall be a member of the Eagle board of review, when conducted at the unit level, and may serve as chairman if so requested by the unit.

 

Because of the importance of the Eagle Scout Award, a unanimous decision must be reached as to the Scout's qualifications. If a unanimous decision is not reached, a new review may be convened at the request of the applicant, the unit leader, or the unit committee. The review should take approximately 30 minutes."

 

Many of those involved in Scouting often do not know this information. One of the great things about Scouting is there is a publication about most everything that gives a great deal of information to us all.

 

Cookie Scout, I am glad to see you bring your concerns to this forum. We all need to keep our eyes open to the challenges and opportunities we face each day in Scouting. Keep asking questions, get all the training you can, read everything that interests you and don't forget the basics. Citizenship, Character, and Fitness. If we can all keep these in focus, it will make it easier to keep things on track.

 

Yours Truly in Scouting,

Rick

 

[Eamonn]

I do think that it is worth mentioning that reaching the rank of Eagle Scout really ought to be a goal set by the individual Scout.

Sure we the adults are there to support, encourage and advise. But the Eagle Rank belongs to the Scout - Not the Troop or the District.

Some Lads are like Unc. And see the goal and go full steam ahead. Some never set the goal and are happy to be part of a troop, while also being busy doing a lot of other things. Yes some Lads do have a life outside of Scouting. There are a lot of Lads who do set the goal but allow themselves to get distracted, maybe doing other things within Scouting.

CookieScout,please don't rush things!! Allow the little fellows to enjoy being little fellows. The big goal for them either be the Arrow of Light or if they have crossed over into the troop being really good First Class Scouts.

Eamonn.

 

[dsteele]

Thanks for the kind words, Eamonn.

 

Cookie:

 

Your boys are graduating into Scouting now. I would caution you not to worry at this point about when or if they make Eagle.

 

My advice echos many others in this thread -- don't push them, but don't hold them back either.

 

Scouts advance at their own pace. Sometimes that pace is a full-out trott on the part of the Scout. Sometimes it's an aimless wandering.

 

No matter what attempt is made to cheat the system, only one person actually decides who will earn the Eagle rank -- the Scout himself.

 

As I've seen over many years, a Scout can't be pulled, pushed, prodded, nudged, or dragged to earning the rank of Eagle. I once met a man who bought his 16 year old son a new car, put it up on blocks and told his son he could have the car when he earned his Eagle. The kid never earned it.

 

The adult role is to coach, guide, enable, assist with resources (maybe.) The role of the Scout is to earn it if he so chooses.

 

When I speak to a group of first year Scouts, I ask them if they know the one single thing it takes to make the Eagle Rank. The answers are usually interesting, but the one I'm looking for is "You have to want it and do it."

 

Just my idle thoughts . . .

 

Unc.

[Vicki]

My 2 cents here - our Eagle Boards are done at the district level, not troop. Our scouts are coached and groomed for them and very happy when it's over.

 

That said, my 12 year old got "the bug" somewhere between First Class and Star. He's now finished the requirements for Life except for six months of service - two weeks to go. He'll be 13 in May. He already has two names to talk to as "source people" for Eagle projects. I've convinced him that he needs to wait until after the Life to Eagle seminar at the April RT before he goes too far with that. Our troop also has two or three scouts about to age out who are sweating their projects, so he'll be in line behind them. Will he make Eagle by 14 or 15? Don't know. He hates to write and plan, so I don't know what's going to happen. On the other hand, he was very thorough on the Cit/Community merit badge and surprised the heck out of me, BTW. Is he mature enough to appreciate it if he does? I don't think so but then if he makes it, doesn't that prove the point? And if he doesn't appreciate it until he's 25, isn't that OK too? Will he have had a lot of help along the way? Absolutely, but the attainment of it will be all his. I'm not really pushing to try to find out why he decided he wants it - maybe you've noticed 12 year olds aren't that articulate (at least not mine)?

 

Sidebar - On the surface, you might find red flags of Eagle Mill but that's truly not the case. We don't do merit badges during meetings - in fact our meeting last night was bootbottle in the parking lot (we'd spent the last several meetings getting ready to host the district Klondike, a 50th anniversary and COH, along with a cabin campout - all of which came off very well, thank you).

 

Back to the point of this ramble - I guess I'm saying that all these boys are wonderfully different and it took me a while to appreciate that (and I mean that in the fullest sense of the word "appreciate"). Fortunately, BP and others were there long before me to set specific guidelines like "do not add to nor detract from the requirements". The program is - what gets done with it is part of the chaotic discipline that I see as the BSA (and enjoy quite a bit).

 

Vicki