1st post here, I have several questions...

[CookieScout]

I've been reading on here a little from time to time, so I thought this would be a good place to try to get some answers. Let me preface this inquiry with my Scout knowledge and Scouting tenure. I have been a Cub Scout leader for 3 years, I have a son that is in Webelos (joined as a Tiger Cub) and two nephews that have earned their Eagle rank, and I am a recently beaded Wood Badge member.

 

As Webelos leaders, we have been introducing the Den to the Boy Scout Oath, Moto, Law, etc. As a leader that will be moving into the Troop with my son next year, and due to some recent Boy Scout events I've participated in recently, I need to ask a few things as far as policies and procedures etc. in the Boy Scout level. Granted, in the Cub Scouts, there are ages and timeframes the boys must reach before moving to another level and rank, is this true for Boy Scouts? I get conflicting reports on this. I'll explain more in detail why I ask this later, but for now, here's a few areas I need some feedback on...

 

Is a Boy Scout required to stay at a certain rank for any set amount of time? (Tenderfoot for ? months, 1st class for ? months?, etc)

 

What is the minimum number of years and months a Boy Scout has to participate as a Boy Scout before he can earn the rank of Eagle?

 

What levels of leadership, and how long in leadership roles, is a Boy Scout required to serve at any level to qualify towards earning his Eagle?

 

What is the required (or recommended) number of, and qualifications for those adults serving on any particular Eagle Board of review?

 

What is the difference in those serving on Merit Badge Board of Review compared to Eagle Board of Review?

 

Is it ok for a Cub Scout or Boy Scout to wear a bolo tie instead of the neckerchief and slide, if so, is there times the bolo is not appropriate? (I assume any time the uniform is worn, either the bolo tie or neckerchief is required uniform attire?) Is the bolo tie just for Scout Leaders?

 

Who has the final say on when a Boy Scout is ready to submit for the Eagle rank... Scoutmaster, parent, or other person?

 

Once earned, can the Eagle rank, or any other Boy Scout rank be taken back from a Scout due to inappropriate actions, or any other form of discipline?

 

Thanks.

[EagleInKY]

Wow. Lots of questions. I'll attempt to answer. Most of these can be answered by looking up the Boy Scout advancement requirements. I've included your questions, my answers in italics.

 

Is a Boy Scout required to stay at a certain rank for any set amount of time? (Tenderfoot for ? months, 1st class for ? months?, etc) No.

 

What is the minimum number of years and months a Boy Scout has to participate as a Boy Scout before he can earn the rank of Eagle? Check the requirements. You'd have to do the math. There are minimum times between 1st Class and Star, Star and Life, Life and Eagle. Remember, it's not a race.

 

What levels of leadership, and how long in leadership roles, is a Boy Scout required to serve at any level to qualify towards earning his Eagle? Check the requirements. I don't have it memorized.

 

What is the required (or recommended) number of, and qualifications for those adults serving on any particular Eagle Board of review? Eagle BOR participants are usually selected by the district advancement chairman. Each council/district may have their own guidelines

 

What is the difference in those serving on Merit Badge Board of Review compared to Eagle Board of Review? No such thing as a MB BOR. There are BORs for each rank. The BORs for Tenderfoot through Life are ran and coordinated by the troop advancement chair. The members of these BORs are members of the Troop Committee.

 

Is it ok for a Cub Scout or Boy Scout to wear a bolo tie instead of the neckerchief and slide, if so, is there times the bolo is not appropriate? (I assume any time the uniform is worn, either the bolo tie or neckerchief is required uniform attire?) Is the bolo tie just for Scout Leaders? I'm pretty sure that neckwear is a troop decision.

 

Who has the final say on when a Boy Scout is ready to submit for the Eagle rank... Scoutmaster, parent, or other person? Not the parent. Scoutmaster has to sign off on the last requirement before sending the paperwork in. The District Advancement Chair has a review step before setting up the BOR.

 

Once earned, can the Eagle rank, or any other Boy Scout rank be taken back from a Scout due to inappropriate actions, or any other form of discipline? Nope.

[ScoutNut]

Most of your answers are in the Boy Scout Handbook. Remember, no one is allowed to add to any BSA requirements.

 

Here is link to Boy Scout Fast Start, it might be helpful:

 

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/faststart/

 

 

[CookieScout]

Oh yeah, and the answer you gave about how long to get to Eagle, "Remember, it's not a race."... That's EXACTLY my point! :-)

 

Here's the post I had started to post in the beginning, but wanted to submit the other questions 1st.....

 

After a recent Den meeting, myself and another Cub Scout leader and a Cub Scout parent were asked by one of our big brother Boy Scout Troop leaders to stay and fill in for an Eagle Board of Review of which some that were invited couldn't attend. I was surprised, never being asked to do one of these before or knowing the specifics, but we decided to stay and assist. This particular night, 4 Boy Scouts were going before the boards, there were 12 adults in attendance. I know that our parent that stayed from the Cub Scout ranks was an Eagle Scout himself.

 

Here's where I need some understanding and guidance. Of the 12 adults gathered, a couple were teachers, a band director, family or friends and those of us from Cub Scouts. Each Boy Scout had 3 adults assigned to him with instructions to take a BOR question notebook to base our questions upon or just ask anything we felt like asking to see if the Scout was ready for the rank of Eagle Scout. 4 reviews all held at the same time this particular night in seperate rooms.

 

My group included this Scout's best friends mother, and another lady I had no idea what her relation was or any civic position. Neither of the two ladies had any "Scouting" knowledge as far as I could tell, and basically asked all of their questions from this little book. This particular Scout was 17 years old, and was mature and ready and prepared as far as I could tell. The other Scouts that night were 13 and 14 years old. These 3 younger Scouts all had parents that were ASM's and older brothers that had all earned their Eagle from within this particular Troop. My concern is that these boys had lacked in my eyes (along with a few other parents) as far as showing maturity and any quality leadership skills.

 

After speaking to the adult that was an Eagle Scout, it didn't seem like the board participants selected (from my understanding, the boys up for review submitted the names of the people there to serve on the EBOR!) were of the quality required for this level of advancement for an Eagle rank. Granted, I understand the program and requirements have changed from the past when one did good to earn his Eagle at, or just before his 18th birthday, but I am of the belief that a 13 (or 14 for that fact) year old isn't mature enuff to be an Eagle. Sure, they've done all of the MB's to qualify them, but I see an Eagle as one that sets himself above the rest, and he's different than your typical Scouter. I'm sad to say that at least 2 of the 4 that night were too young and were rushed thru the Boy Scout program and the Eagle rank is becoming too watered down. In fact, those leaders and parents that are moving up to the Troop over the next couple of years are considering discussing with the SM about the timing of advancements of ranks. SURELY it is required more of a Boy Scout than to serve some 2 or 3 years to earn the rank of Eagle! One parent went as far as to say that if this is what Scouting has come to, he's not seeing the justification of trying to keep his 2 boys in the program if they find something else to do instead. And I must agree, I was extrememly disappointed after going thru this process.

 

I see Scouts that are troublemakers, backtalk their parents, and very immature that are now walking around as Eagle Scouts, and it is tarnishing the program IMHO. Some of you may disagree with my views, but for me and several parents of the Scouts moving up in the next year or so, we're holding out until at least the age of 15 to allow our boys application to Eagle ranking if they're even ready by that point. I am thankful that there have been some very qualified and tremendous young men that I do know that have become Eagles out of this very same Troop, and those are the ones that I'm very proud to be associated with. But if my memory serves me correctly on most of them, they were 16 or 17 before they all earned their Eagles.

 

Is there not more strenuous guidelines for EBOR participants other than the mother of your best friend participating? Do the boys get to choose who sits on their board? Is there not requirements for each rank that requires a specific tenure that the cumulative time is no more than 2 years to earn this rank? I'm sorry, but if that's all there is to it, to many of us, the idea of an Eagle rank is sadly diminishing in stature.

 

I am eager to read thru the Boy Scout manual, and the advancement program manuals to see what requirements if any are and how they compare to these boys I've witnessed advance. If they have been pushed thru undeservedly, hopefully we will gain a new advancement officer quickly and these boys can get back on the proper track and actually grow like they need to, instead of just getting the "paperwork part" done. I've even met recently with a person in charge of approving advancements and Eagle projects in our district, and even he made a point I never thought about.... "Just because a Scout goes thru the program, doesn't mean he's qualified to be an Eagle Scout." The thinking about this goes along with the thought that just because a person goes thru med school, doesn't make him a Dr. does it?

 

I'm very proud of Scouting, not just for what it means to me or my son, but I just don't want to see it weakened any further to those yet to go thru the program. Thank you and sorry for the long babble session! :-)

[dsteele]

There are seveal things in your post that merit further discussion. I'll attempt to address the one that hits close to home for me.

 

There is no minimum age for someone to earn Eagle and it is not within the rules to create one. Yes, it is possible for a Scout to earn the rank within 2-3 years. This is rare, but it does happen and you can't stop it.

 

In 1979, when I earned my Eagle just shy of my 14th birthday, the requirements were different. At that point in time, there WERE time requirements between all ranks. This could have been an attempt to prevent young Eagle Scouts.

 

At the time I earned Eagle, you had to be a Scout for 1 month before you could earn Tenderfoot, Tenderfoot for 2 months, Second Class for 3 months . . . and then 4 months before Star, 6 before Life and 5 before Eagle.

 

In 1988, the program changed and there were no minimum tenure requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class or First Class. Indeed, it's even possible to work on all three of the first three ranks simlutaneously!

 

I remember when the change came out that there was much rending of cloth and fear that the change would bring about droves of young Eagle Scouts. It didn't happen.

 

I don't have a copy in front of me, but if you're looking for the rules regarding Eagle Boards of Review, they can be found, officially, in the Advancement Committee Proceedures manual available for sale at your Scout Shop.

 

Unc.

 

 

[EagleWB]

CookieScout,

Were these true Eagle BOR or "practice" boards at the Troop level? I know in our Council the EBOR is now done on a Council level. Even back when the EBOR was done at the Troop level there had to be a representative from the District on the board.

[Laurie]

The Eagle discussion brings up an important point to me. I know 13- and 14- year-old boys who are very mature, and then there are those who are immature even into adulthood. One of the very appealing things to me in Scouting is that each boy has the opportunity to set his own goals, work at his own pace, and so long as he meets the requirements, his age should not matter.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[EagleInKY]

I had the same question as EagleWB. This sounds like a troop-level practice BOR.

 

Cookie - Did you sign anything at the end of it recommending the young man be awarded the Eagle Rank? If not, chances are this was a practice drill (albeit badly organized).

[ScoutNut]

As I posted earlier, no one, even you, has the right to add to ANY BSA requirements. It does not matter if you feel that the boy is to young for Eagle, what matters is if all of the requirements for Eagle have been properaly signed off . If they have, & if his project has been approved, then there is NO WAY to hold him back. And you should NOT want to!

 

Most districts now have Eagle advisors to help the boys thru the application process & the BOR's are staffed by district personal. This takes the whole thing out of the "Good 'Ole Boy" local politics & into a more fair arena. I don't know what council you are with, but unless those neighbors, best friends, teachers, band directors, & family are District Scouters & not related to the Scout or part of his Troop then they would NOT be a part of his Eagle BOR in my council.

 

 

[CookieScout]

requirements for other Boy Scouts in our future Troop all inclusively, but that won't keep myself and other concerned parents from making sure that our boys spend the proper length of time and in a timely manner finishing the requirements before advancing to such a prestigeous position in Scouting.

 

I do not believe that the EBOR that I sat in on was any practice, but in fact, everyone involved was told and proceeded as the actual final review. As a matter of fact, the parents and Troop made a big deal out of the event with a reception dinner afterwards as a "Thank You for you time and participation" deal gathering immediately after the 4 Eagle reviews. I'm sad to say, that after reading some of the replies here, is that our Scoutmaster and district representatives need to be aware of changes that need to be made in their future formats and qualifications, that's for sure! I'm sad to say that it looks like our Troop is more interested of late of just pushing their candidates on into the Eagle rank without thoroughly making sure that boy is honestly qualified to do so, not just by awards he's "earned" but by the moral and mature standards an Eagle is suppose to represent as well, and not just because his "friends" in the Troop have signed everything off for him.

 

Please understand, just because I don't think these few boys that just were "given" their Eagle rank at this young age, doesn't mean that I am not judging them that they would never be deserving of the award, I'm just saying that these are examples of why I disagree with the lack of tenure specific requirements that used to be in place, and the need of more checks and balances in the Troops and district levels. It's just that when I think of a boy the is an Eagle Scout, I think of one that is an example of outstanding character, and maturity, and not simply a boy that's done the projects without living daily by the Scout Law and other Scout principles. That Is what I'm embarrased by in all of this and have a bad taste about that is driving me to learn more and try to do what I can to correct an obvious problem in this particular Troop. Hopefully, this situation is limited to very few groups, but I'm afraid it happens more than some know.

 

Thanks all for your feedback, and resources! I appreciate all the assistance, and look forward to learning more thanks to the support of each of you and the many other concerned Scouters out there!

[acco40]

One of the things that I don't like about some individuals wrt the BSA, Boy Scouts in particular is the emphasis on the Eagle rank. All ranks have the well known "shows Scout spirit" requirement - NOT JUST EAGLE. A Tenderfoot Scout should be leading his daily life by the Scout Oath and Law no more or no less than an Eagle Scout. However, everyone seems to focus on Eagle. Why?

[Bob58]

Off the top of my head units can convene Boards of Review for the Eagle rank with the permission of the District / Council Advancement chair. (I seem to recall the need for a representative of the District Board but this might be local folklore.)

 

Yopu might want to review the considerable number of threads of the role of Boards of Review. The members of the Board can't (should not!)retest and should only be held when the young man has met all requirements, enjoyed a Scoutmasters Conference and is truly ready to advance. The Board really reviews the unit's performance by interviewing the youn man. It doesn't seem that this will occur if the board is being conducted on the fly by members of the boys' own unit.

 

I often counsel gentle inquiry into any doubtful or questionable practices... sometimes as a unit loses its trained leaders and "continues" a practice that they didn't really understand in the first place.

 

Our district is currently revamping our Eagle Board. For many years a group of 6 or 7 highly respected community leaders provided at least 2 members to every board that was convened. Those few would recruit enough others, usually scouters, form a five or six person panel. The result was a rather impressive board and very interesting exchanges with the boys. Sitting as a troop representative I heard several things that we institutionalized & others that we worked hard to change. Those boards provided a real insight into how our troop was guiding young men on "the Trail to Eagle."

 

I genuinely regret that my son will not have the chance to share an hour or so w/ Tom Lodge, esq. who passed away last year.

 

Bob

[CookieScout]

EXCELLENT point acco40! I guess, it's because in this thread it was mainly because of my experience with an Eagle Board of Review I had issues with. I do mention to my group of Webelos that they should be mindful of the Scouting way everyday, and in all that they do. We are guilty often of pointing out the Eagles, but that's mainly because they are suppose to be the top of the Boy Scouts ranks, kinda like most of the focus is on the President of the United States, and not as much as all of the politicians and how they act daily, we just seem to single out the ones at the top in society I s'pose. Thanks for bringing that up tho, we should emphasis to all Scouts, of all ranks to live the Scout Law in their daily lives.

[SemperParatus]

Cookie, I would have to say that those Eagle boards did not do any service to those scouts. Having an Eagle Board slapped together at the last minute, consisting of a bunch of adults that know nothing of the scout or the program and whose only guidance is some sample questions from a manual, is very sloppy and weak. Likewise, scheduling four in one night, while it may be efficient, certainly reinforces the message that this is an assembly line approach. I do not fault the scouts in this situation, it is the troop leadership that has created an environment that sounds as if 'following the process' is granted greater attention and value then the scout's personal development as an individual young man of character. The scouts were a mere product of this system.

 

While slapping age and tenure requirements on advancement may seem to be a solution, IMO it does not address the underlying problem of a troop that is run by 'process' with weak advancement/requirements review. In such a system, you will surely end up with 'immature' 17 year-old Eagles that really can't tell you what they did, how they did it and, most importantly, why they did it. As others have said, in your scouting life you will run into incredibly mature 13-year old Eagles and incredibly immature 17-year old Eagles, and the complete spectrum in between. Maturity levels are primarily a function of the scout's individual personality and constitution, as developed during his interactions with family, peers, teachers, coaches and scout leaders. Putting age/tenure requirements, without addressing the underlying troop advancement philosophy, could easily stifle that highly gifted young adolescent that lives scouting, while continuing to just pass along (albeit more slowly) those less interested.

[Torveaux]

For some people getting the Eagle is a matter of personal pride in a job well-done.

 

For others it is a matter of status.

 

Still others see it as an opportunity. Having Eagle on your college applications is often a positive. Ditto job applications.

 

Some rush through because 'high school is just so full of social engagements'.

 

What I find interesting, in a sad sort of way, is that the program changed ostensibly to retain more boys by removing the modest tenure requirements. There seems to be fairly little objection to that, but suggest a modification in the uniform, even a minor one, and some people thing you called Baden-Powell an unsavory name. Go figure.

 

I would like to see the program expect some leadership and participation at every level before earning rank. I noticed in some of the Summer Camp materials that 1st Class is almost automatic if you go to Summer Camp. My short tenure in Scouting only got me to 2nd Class, but I had to work as part of the unit for 6 months to get there.

 

What some people fail to realize is that part of the value of obtaining Eagle is tarnished when Troops become Eagle mills and seem to exist merely to confer such rank upon boys as quickly as possible.

 

As for the ages, you may have 'some' young mature boys, and 'some' older immature boys, but the numbers represent the exception, not the rule. Very few 13 year-olds really have the capacity for leadership that one would expect to see in someone wearing Eagle rank.