JLTC / NYLT age cutoff limit

[dan]

I thought you had seen the information mailed to the Scoutmasters, from your posts over on google. Only running 2 troops this year. Not because of AC power, had this covered.

[nldscout]

I have seen 12 yr old scouts that were more mature than a lot or 14-15 yr old ones.

 

>"Well because the 12 year old can have a horrible experience living with a group of 14 to 17 year olds strangers for a week."

 

Well we sent 10 1/2 and 11 yr old scouts to summer camp for a week with scouts they may only just barely know. We send them to the NSJ for 10 days clean across the country, so is this different?

 

>"JLTC is a senior scout program designed for the mental maturity of senior level scouts."

 

I wasn't aware we had "Senior Scouts". Is this a program just in your council or is this a national program that the rest of us haven't heard about yet?

 

If the youth are finding your program " bad, boring, scary or whatever negitive experience", Then I submit your not following the training sylubus, because thats not the way the course is designed.

 

I still think it should be the SM choice who he wants to attend, he is the best judge of youth in his troop. Sounds to me like you decide which 13yr old should attend even if the SM has signed him up. Am I reading that right?

[dan]

I will agree that some 12 to 13 years old could go to NYLT or JLTC and get a lot out of it. The problem is that not all are ready for it, and apparently the Scoutmasters do not know that they are not ready for it, or do not care. Last Year I spent on average 2 hours a day for the first half of the course, dealing with home sickness, this was after the SPL had tried everything he could with the scouts. We have a unwritten rule, that we will only send a scout home as a last resort. A home sick scout ruins the training for the entire patrol. Last year we had 3 homesick scouts and 2 that did not want to be there. The letter says that the SM picks the scouts and that they should have a least one year of long term camping. Talking to the homesick scouts over the last 3 years, one thing has been said by almost all of them. Yes, they went to summer camp, but there Dad or Mom where with them either as a SM or ASM.

[Eagledad]

>>Sounds to me like you decide which 13yr old should attend even if the SM has signed him up. Am I reading that right?

[Eamonn]

I have not as yet seen the NYLT syllabus. So I can't say anything about it.

I did like the old week long Council JLTC.

OJ has been invited to be the ASPL for the new course so I will watch what he is doing and maybe learn something.

Most of us have viewed the BSA Ages and Stages video and have worked with Scouts of all ages. Is there a difference between a 12 year old and a 14 year old? Sure there is. I however do think that we need to deal with each Lad as an individual. This may not always be possible, with events that are offered outside of the Troop. Maybe asking for Scouts who have participated in certain activities would be a better way to go? Say maybe two summer camps? There was a lot of writing and sitting in the old course, I don't know if a 12 year old would be up to that? I do know that some of the older Lads who took the JLTC had a hard time with it.

Not to change the subject but is the link:www.jltbsa.org a BSA page or what?

Eamonn.

[FScouter]

"Not to change the subject but is the link:www.jltbsa.org a BSA page or what?"

 

That site says it is provided by woodbadge.org, which is not affiliated with BSA.

[Vicki]

I was asked to serve as an ASM for NYLT this summer - we had our orientation meeting about a week ago and it sounds really exciting! Very much based on the new Wood Badge. There are videotaped segments on DVD from astronauts, race car drivers, Steve Fossett and others that are very inspirational along with powerpoint-type slides. This allows the TGs a lot of leeway to prepare their own presentation yet stay within the parameters of the program. There are games and challenges that go along with the theme of the day. They've also added GPS training as a team-building exercise with a practical aspect to it. Obviously that's the very high-level view but I'm glad to see it's been updated.

 

That said, our council allows 12 year olds to attend. My son went last summer at twelve and was in no way mature enough for it but his SM recommended he go, so he went. Had I known then what I know now, I would have suggested he wait until this summer.

 

Vicki

[Eagledad]

>>My son went last summer at twelve and was in no way mature enough for it but his SM recommended he go,

[Vicki]

Eagledad, I wasn't blaming anybody, especially not the SM. Interesting how some lines hit some people's sensibilities and other lines push other buttons. Anyway, if it was anybody's responsibility, it was mine. I'm his mom, I know him better than the SM (again, not saying the SM should - he has 35 other boys to worry about and he doesn't live with him). I don't even really regret sending him last summer - I just think he'd get more out of it now that he's older. I'm sure he'd enjoy this program more.

 

Vicki

[Eagledad]

>> Eagledad, I wasn't blaming anybody,

[acco40]

FYI, on the last day of NYLT (for participants) the SM should attend. Besides dinner, he has a meeting with the course director/SPL/SM of the NYLT to learn what the course is all about. One of the most common complaints the youth had about the old JLTC course was that their unit SM did not let them practice what they were taught. Old habits die hard but the NYLT tries to remedy that situation.

[dan]

acco40

I do not believe that is part of the NYLT course. But now I have to go double check!

 

edit

I believe that is an option that some council do. This was discussed at the course advisor's meeting.(This message has been edited by dan)

[Torveaux]

Well I just got home from Roundtable and if our District is indicative of the average District I would guess that many SMs don't know what is expected / taught because they don't go to Roundtable or at least send a Troop representative.

 

 

[ps56k]

Dan - went back thru the materials...

---

ok - found it - sort of -

But it didn't indicate that the avail space was reduced this year - down from 144 participants to only 84 participants. And the cost went up.

Without last year's form, there is no baseline to know the number changed, and was reduced, or why.

 

2004 - (snip'd from 2004 form)

CONFERENCE FEE

Conference fee is $135 on or before May 1, 2004; $150 for each participant, after May 1. Reservations are limited to 144 participants, and June 1 is the final day for reservations. Council camperships are available for up to 50% of the fee by submitting a campership application with your reservation. No refunds after June 5, 2003.

 

2005 -

(snip'd from 2005 cover)

You are encouraged to return your reservations as soon as possible, since space is limited to only 84 participants.

 

(snip'd from 2005 form)

WHAT IS THE COST? The Conference fee of $165 is due with the Reservation form on or

before May 1, 2005. After May 1st the cost is $185.00. Council camperships are available

for up to 50% of the fee by submitting a campership application with your reservation.

-------

 

Torveaux -

As for letting SM's know what's in the program, why keep it a "secret". I like this council's webpage describing what the Scouts will encounter.

http://www.sfcbsa.org/Training/NYLT.html

 

When I asked for an agenda from our council, it was like I was asking for the holy grail... and basically told to go away. In the corp training arena, most companies want to see exactly what their participants will be doing, and what the outcomes will be for each segment.

 

There are good info nuggets on pages 1-4 of the Staff Guide that could easily be shared or posted for anyone interested. After all, if they were not interested, why would they be asking.

(This message has been edited by ps56k)