ASM's with children in the Troop

[ozemu]

Okay the other topic asked whether an adult should be an ASM if they had no child in the Troop.

 

What do you do though to give your own children space and experiences that are not influenced by yourself? How do you set them free if you are right there?

 

The norm here: I do not sign off any MB or advancement work for my biological children. I have never been the ASM supervising their Patrol. I ask the ASM's to discipline my kids. I hope they will praise them too. I do not nominate them for recognition (traditions that recognise good campers etc) and hope that the ASM's will do that.

 

Of course I watch out for the ASM's kids as I hope they watch mine. We discuss this with all new adults.

 

Most of us consider serving a different Troop to the one our children are in. I have several parents who do not put the uniform on in order to set their children free.

 

What do you do as SM/ASM's who have children in the Troop?

[ozemu]

Please don't think me rude if I do not reply much. I am working away most of this week.

[Eagle1973]

I do my best to treat him like any other Scout. I give him the chance to "fail forward", although, he does get a few more leadership lessons on the ride home, but at the meetings and campouts, I let him be.

 

I talked w/ the other leaders and expressed my concern with me signing off my son's requirements, they have no problem with it, because from their experience, Dad ASM's make it tougher on their own son. My son's first MB was signed off by me, but I've got his rifle targets to prove that we have a future police sniper in the making. ;-)

 

I don't do SM conferences with my own son.

[CaveEagle]

I am glad this topic came up, because it reminded me of a SMs position that really confused me. I was the troop CC and had asked the SM if he wanted me to help out as a patrol advisor for my son's patrol. BTW my son's patrol was getting virtually no guidance from the ASM who was assigned to two patrols. The SM told me that he would be happy for me to serve in this position, but not for my son's patrol. Two of my son's patrol members live in our neighborhood and are at my house all the time anyway, so it would have been very easy for me to help out with this group. I also travel a lot and am out of town quite a bit.

 

I could have made a made a valuable contribution to this patrol. I do understand the need to let my son be out "on his own". I have been very carefull to give him plenty of space. Actually, I make it a habbit to ask him if he wants me to attend to camp-outs / events that he attends. To date, he has never aksed me not to attend.

 

CE

[dsteele]

I think ASM's within the troop need to realize that the relationship with their son depends on both father and son.

 

I'm going back a bit to my memories of being a youth in the troop when my Dad was a very active assistant scoutmaster. On outings, he acted toward me like any other adult. I acted toward him in the same manner. I was not allowed to call him Dad on the campout or outing or at the troop meetings for that matter. I called him Mr. . . . just like everyone else did. If I got in trouble (which did happen if you know me) I was treated like any other Scout.

 

This continued when he became Scoutmaster. I had no more or less priviledge or hardship because of his position. It took both of us to pull it off.

 

It was not harshness, just a realization that I needed my space and he needed his . . . but that the troop needed leadership.

 

I hope this helps more than confuses. I'll take questions.

 

Unc.

[Holaka]

My son's step-dad is the CC of the troop. I am the Advancement Chair/Treasurer and might be moving into an ASM position. My son is the SPL, and he gets no special treatment from either one of us. Our troop is relatively small (10 boys) and every boy but one has at least one if not both parents involved in some way. Our unofficial policiy is to not discipline or get after our own sons, but to have someone else do it. So far, this has worked for us.

 

Cheryl

[Joni4TA]

Personally, I am a committee member not an ASM, but I find myself being harder on my own son than I am on others. As a aresult, in order to give him his freedom, I choose to remain a committee member (even though I'd love to be an ASM and have taken Scoutmaster training). I want HIM to enjoy Scouting so I just sort of butt-out, but sit on the committee so I can at least make sure he gets a fun and exciting program.

[EagleInKY]

I am probably harder on my son than any other boy in the troop. In fact, go ahead and take probably out of that statement, I am harder on him than any other boy in the troop. But it doesn't stop others from accusing you of favoritism. The best you can do, I've found, is to make sure decisions regarding your are shared and agreed upon by the other ASMs of the troop.

[SemperParatus]

Over the past couple of years, my son and I (SM) have fallen into a nice decoupling arrangement. There are some trips that he goes on where I choose to stay home (there are plenty of ASMs) and then there are other trips that he decides not to participate in that I just can't pass up (much to the dismay of my wife). Then there are trips that we enjoy together. We make it a point to give each other plenty of space, although sometimes we do take the opportunity to spend some time together.

 

Our troop does the normal stuff, adult patrol advisors not working with their own son's patrol, no sign-offs for advancement, limit merit badge counseling where alternatives exist.

 

From the discipline side, we had a few adults that would come on trips (rather haphazardly) and who felt it was necessary to bark orders to all boys and discipline them for the smallest of issues. It got to the point that we basically said no adult is to discipline a scout (as opposed to taking immediate action to prevent injury to person or property). Any issues must be quietly brought to the attention of the SPL who will handle the situation. This applies to all adults and sons. An adult that feels the need to discipline their own son can do so, but they must leave the camp vicinity to do it.

[red feather]

When my sons were active in the troop ( both are Eagle now, 1 in college and 1 in the Army) I tried to give them as much space as I could. I did not go to Philmont with them or the Boundary Waters. I did so to allow them to experience these trips without Dad around. However, I did look to them at meetings and overnights to help 'get things done'.

 

yis

 

 

[KoreaScouter]

I've been my son's Cubmaster and SM (twice). I like to think that unless you knew he was my kid, you wouldn't know it from watching either of us at meetings/outings. I don't follow him around, and he doesn't follow me around. I don't let him get away with anything the others don't, and I try not to hold him to a higher standard either -- although he does understand that as the SM's son, he plays a bit of a "barometer" role.

 

I'm not hyper-sensitive about avoiding the appearance of favoritism by deliberately deflecting conferences, counseling, and other tasks onto another leader -- but, that's a luxury I can afford because I don't show any favoritism. Who was it who said "...life is easy if you tell the truth, because you don't have to remember anything..."? Nor do I ask my ASMs to do the same with their sons. Keeping fathers/sons apart is not only unnatural in my opinion, but policing the whole thing would turn into an ice cream headache for me. Our ASMs are assigned program responsibilities by function rather than patrol, so by definition they have to interact with their own sons at various points...the artificial "handoffs" are not something I want to saddle them with.

 

At some level, if a leader thinks other leaders should avoid their own sons in the program for some "internal control" reason, then there's another issue going on here. I try to assume that Scouts and leaders are trustworthy until/unless they show otherwise. Then, I'll deal with the exception. Why do we collectively love to take something that should be simple and make it more complicated than it has to be?

 

KS

 

[OneHour]

We are sometimes tougher on our sons than needed to be, at least I am. I don't sign off my son's handbook; however, I do sign off his blue card if I hold the merit badge class for the entire troop and he happens to be one of the participants. I advise him to seek other mb counselor if it is just he who wants to do the mb.

 

1Hour