Adults with no sons in the unit

[ScoutNut]

"I too detected a negative comment (the one about GIRL scouts)."

 

Ok, I'll bite. Why was my post negative? It was a suggestion, & I feel a good one.

 

If you enjoy Scouting, and have daughters, why would you NOT want to be involved in Scouting with them too? You CAN volunteer for both organizations at the same time. I do.

 

 

[AZScouter]

My wife and I did Girl Scouts with my two oldest. Simply put, it is an inferior program in every way, shape, and form. A male wanting to help or be a leader is made to feel like an interloper. I know probably 30 men who have experienced this. Additionally, men cannot be a unit leader, only a co-leader. In fact there are not ever adult uniforms available for men.

 

My daughters did a combined five years in GSUSA and camped out twice, once was in the leaders back yard! They saw the Boy Scouts go camping monthly.

 

The BSA refers to the "Scouting Family"; Dad and Mom are Scouters, the boys in varios levels of Boy Scouts, but the girls left out until they are 14. England, Mexico, Australia, Germany, France, and most every other country had co-ed scouting. Do you know who doesn't? Iran, Iraq, UAE, Suadi Arabia, in good company aren't we!

 

I don't want my kids to be part of any organization, I want them to be part of the best program. I want my kids have the opportunity to be Eagle Scouts, is that too much to ask?

 

My oldest is now a Venturer and the middle will be in May. She loves the program, has earned one Bronze so far and has staffed the rifle range at summer camp, but still is not eligible for many opportunities the BSA has to offer.

 

I don't think this was supposed to be a debate about co-ed scouting, but for many of us it is exactly that. My point was, why would you turn down a valuable resource or send that resource to another organization because he has no sons.

[ozemu]

I must admit that my jaw dropped after page one of this debate. I did not think people were negative but rather assumed that ASM was a parent position. I know that is not the case but not being BSA I thought for a few moments that I had misread your handbooks a bit.

 

An interesting assumption.

 

I was the ASM without any kids and then without any in the Troop and now I expect they will leave home and leave me alone in the Troop too.

 

I used to get posted to a new location and if I got a desk instead of a command I would really enjoy ringing the local Scout HQ and ask "Do you need another ASM?" Got a brilliant reaction every time. Usually I got Troops that were in trouble.

 

So I would recommend (in a Scout spirit selfless kind of way) that he ring the DE as suggested by others. (and then after dark when no one was looking I would sneak over to his place and explain how great a time he would have with my Troop)

[Eagle Foot]

We have two who do not have sons, one is now our committee chairman and the other is our advancement chairman. Both where Eagle scouts....

I know the feelings, however you may be missing out on some golden help!!!

 

I told them when the meetings were then I let them do the rest, if truly interested I figured they would show up on their own, and I followed and practiced the Scout Oath with them.

 

After about four or five meetings I got them signed up...we've never been happier. To put things in more focus they both are member of the church and of our mens group, our support scale has gone up over the chart.

 

Did BP have a son? How about Green Bar Bill?

 

Whats all of this stuff about hikeing once in a while, or attend occaisionally...sounds like someone is being to picky. Those that are truly interested will find a way to show up reguarly. I never give anyone the feeling that they are not welcome. (unless it is very clear that they really should find something else to do with their time...such as bad language, power trip, big talker, etc.)

[MidwestMom]

I once talked to a Scouter who had four daughters, no sons. He said that he wanted to enrich the pool of potential sons-in-law....

 

If your troop already has more than enough ASMs, I would agree with those who suggested he join the troop committee, be a merit badge counselor, or contact the council to find a troop where he could be an ASM

[resqman]

My scoutmaster was married but had no kids. When asked we were told his wife was unable to bear children. It was his way to have the experience of fatherhood. He ran a very active troop with high enrollment and generated his share of Eagles.

 

We had several committee members who sons had been through the program and earned their Eagles. The adults stayed with the program. Mr. Stump was known for his Stump Stew which he made each year for the troops annual weekend hike on the Appalachian Trail. They attended troop meetings and some of the campouts. They continued to be MB counslers.

 

My dad was a committee member and later an asst Explorer Post leader. I aged out and went to college. My dad became the Post leader and ran the Post for 8-10 years after I was out of scouts.

 

I would be happy to have an Eagle volunteer for any level of BSA. While they may be out of date on the current legal and program methods of today, they have the values, morals, and experience of "having been there". Heck, they even got a patch for having been there!

 

I missed scouting and thought of becoming a leader several times while my kids were babies and toddlers. I waited and my youngest has been in Cub Scouts for 2 years. I volunteered and have been his Den Leader.

 

Many of the leaders in my son's pack are fine people who attend training and do the best they can for the boys. Many have no previous experience with scouting. There are times I see areas that had they been through the program themselves, they would have struggled less with tasks. I would embrace his offer to volunteer even if you have "too many" volunteers now.

[BurnsCrew440Advisor]

We just went to University Of Scouting this last weekend. One of the things we hear over and over. Use your resources!! And a Eagle Scout is a big resource no matter what the age.

The Troop here has a SM that hasn't had a son in a troop for over 25 years. In fact alot of the committee don't have sons in the troop. But they are great resources and living in a small town far from the Council we use what we have. One thing for sure, we never have to worry about 2 deep leadership!!

 

[boots2]

Hay why not if he wants to be a leader let him. It not realy his fault he got a girl and theres nothing you can do to change the fact ( well at least without being put on hold for 11 years) so if he want to be a leader let him, if he wants to camp let him.

[Chippewa29]

I've really enjoyed reading this thread. This is the first time I've been on the forum in about a month, so having a good thread where I could give some hopefully good thoughts is a plus.

 

I'm single and have no kids. As some of you long time posters know, I am the SM of my troop and am an alumnus of the troop. I wasn't very active while I was in college (I helped out a little in the summers). When I finished college and started working, I missed going on the campouts and helping out. Plus, I've never been someone who enjoys hanging out in the bars and clubs on the weekends. I got partially active (2 meetings a month, 3-4 campouts a year) at first and then got more active after a few years. Whenever we get new Scouts in the troop, at least one new parent is wondering why I'm single and working with the Scouts. My reply is this:

1. This is a much better environment for me to be in on the weekends than the bars.

2. I love to camp and do outdoor activities. Where else would I find a group of people willing to do that every month?

3. The adult leaders when I was going through Scouts were very helpful to me. The best way to repay them is to help some young men enjoy their Scouting experience.

 

Two other factors that are great about "non-attached" adult leaders. The first is they tend to stick around longer and are more committed. Our committee chair joined the troop with her son in 96 and became the committee chair in 98. Her son quit the Scouts about a year or so later, but she enjoyed helping out so much, she stayed around and does a great job. Our troop treasurer once had two sons in the troop, none since 1998. He's been our treasurer since 1990 and keeps us flush with money at all times. He's never once been on a campout, but he shows up to almost every troop meeting, makes a pot of coffee, and shoots the breeze with the other adults. He's retired and enjoys helping out. He's also becomes friends with quite a few of the adults in the troop.

 

The other factor is objectivity. The biggest problem my troop has had over the years is parents accusing the adult leaders of favoring their own sons. At times, it almost ripped the troop apart. Everyone in my troop knows that I'm there for all the kids and I've never been accused of playing favorites. The same goes for our committee chair and our treasurer. I also have a fellow troop alum with no kids that helps us out. Once they get to know us, the parents love the fact their kids have positive role models that aren't parents.

 

If someone wants to help out, find a way for them to do it. If your troop really can't use them, find them a troop that can. When my troop gets to a certain point where they don't need me anymore, I have a friend that is SM of a troop in inner-city Detroit that would love to have my help.

[eagle90]

Well said, Chippewa29. Sounds very similar to my story.

[Fuzzy Bear]

One issue of concern is the hesitation or doubt in some of the statements. The silent statement is, Why does a grown man without a boy in the Troop want to be in Scouting?" Just a few years ago, this kind of skepticism was not as evident. Today, there is a constant undercurrent in the news of adults taking advantage of kids. The Catholic Church is still having repercussions from their lack of vigilance. For a period of time in Scouting, there was a rash of lawsuits and large settlements over the same things.

 

The push for Two-Deep leadership came only after several incidents. Youth Protection is now a standard part of the training. People are more guarded and ready to question motive without action. Many are weary of thinking about it but are still looking over their shoulders. Nobody wants such a problem in their unit and it is scary.

 

How do we effectively deal with this issue? It starts with making every person aware of the problem by training both adults and Scouts. Two-deep leadership is mandatory for every event and interaction. Parents are recruited to be either Assistants or to be part of the committee. People that take advantage of kids want to be left alone to do their deeds. When there are responsible adults around, it makes it difficult for bad things to happen.

 

I know some units complain that they barley have enough leaders for two-deep leadership. Only having two leaders in a unit is a danger sign and should be the time that people act/Recruit. If parents refuse for good reasons, then people in the community need to be asked. Units need responsible adults and they need support. The safeguards are now in place and should always be used and maintained. There will continue to be problems but awareness can reduce the impact and limit the incidence.

 

This brings us back to the young lawyer. A unit does not need 21 ASMs but 21 is better than 1. Their unit might need another committee member and if so, then there could be 21 on it also. With that many adults around, it would make it difficult for any adult to be alone with any Scout for any reason. We should also think first about the resources that a person can bring to the unit before we send them off. In the Troop that I lead, we had as many adults as Scouts but all for different reasons (and resources) and not all were registered. We still had our problems but the problems were all issues that our Unit Committee could safely and properly resolve. Awareness through training and action was the key to us having a quality program in every way.

 

FB

 

[Chippewa29]

One other thing I forgot to mention when I posted before: In the early years of Scouting, many of the Scout leaders were single male teachers or ministers. These were men that had more time available to help the kids since they didn't have families of their own. Often, they were looked upon as good role models who were still able to relate to the Scout age kids. They were adults, but not parents, so the Scouts could be a little more at ease around them. The way I wrote that, does it make sense?

[Hunt]

Fuzzy Bear puts his finger on it--we live in a less trusting society. I don't know if molestation is more or less common than it was 30 years ago, but we hear about it a lot more, and it makes us suspicious of everybody. When a leader has kids in the unit, it's less likely that anybody will wonder why he's involved. Two-deep leadership is the antidote to these concerns.

One other point--the whole scouting "thing" seems odd to people who haven't been exposed to it before, especially the spectacle of adults in uniform, the saluting, the lingo, etc. The neophyte might have trouble understanding why somebody would want to be involved in all that if it wasn't for their own child.

[sitrep]

The best way to get him involved and keep him is to ask him what he wants to do. Volunteers are scarce so why would you want to lose him to be a district commish or other position?

[BSAChaplain]

In my troop as a boy, I had two long term leaders, both of which were very positively influential on me.

 

The first was a single man, who had been a Life Scout himself, and deeply loved the program. He was odd in a wonderful way.

 

The second was a married man with boys in the troop. He had only minimal Scouting in his background.

 

I could spend all day telling you about how wonderful they were. However, one probably would not pass through review now (rightly so) because he was arrested several times in the park of a neighboring community for indecent exposure. (Something I found out several years later, I don't think any parents knew about it then.)

 

My point...we need to be vigilant about our two-deep leadership but DO NOT rule out the single men. I can say with confidence that I would not be an Eagle if not for one.