Mommies (or other adults) doing the work

[Eamonn]

Beav, My Dear Friend,

Sad thing is once you start down this road you end up with something like the tax code. You will never correct the parents. They are not the people you work for. Your job is to train the PL's.

No rule book, will ever replace the Scout Oath and Law. At the end of the day A Scout is trustworthy. Rule books take away from allowing the choice.

Do you want parents who tell Scouts what the rule book says or do you want Scouts who say " It's OK I can do it, anyway I need to do this for such and such."

Rather than books of rules we need to be seeking out each and every opportunity to place our Scouts in positions of trust. We need to look at the word is.

None of the laws say "May be" or "Can be", they say is.

I know that I sound like an old LP that got stuck.

I hate rule books, call them what you like I just think that they take away from what we are trying to do.

Eamonn

[ozemu]

Educate the parents - constantly and relentlessly.

 

Train the Scouts - that's the fun bit.

 

Remember that we are SM's not the parents and if they insist on stuffing up a perfectly good system then that is their right. I've seem it happen - rarely. It has always been hard to watch.

 

Most get the drift quickly. Maybe I overdo it as several have asked if they are doing too much and I have everytime told them they are on track. Like Beaver explained with the grades.

 

In fact I give the talk again Monday night as that is the start of the Scouting year for us. All parents are expected to turn up for sign on and get the talk and brief on the annual plan. The new parents get a double dose straight after.

[KoreaScouter]

We have a group talk with all our bridging Webelos Scouts (SPL takes them aside) and with the parents at the same time (that's my department). Explain the differences between Cub and Boy Scouts, and what role parents play.

 

Importantly from my point of view: it's not like snapping a light switch on and off, and it isn't just mommies, either. What I do know for sure is that I've got enough work to do without trying to redesign families' relationships. In other words, I don't have a big enough ego to think I can "undo" what took 11 years to "do". I agree with the other posters who say that except for a few hard cases (who will not respond to our more-or-less subtle attempts at redirection anyway), these problems work themselves out within the first year the lad's in the Troop, and equilibrium settles in.

 

In a previous unit, we had a dad (our CC, actually) literally follow his son around at summer camp the entire week (helping him in the craft lodge, shouting tips at the rifle range, etc), and try to make dope deals with the counselors to enable him to complete at least ten MBs that week (you know, meeting during lunch, during free time, just turning in worksheets, etc). The camp director had to threaten him with ejection to make him stop. Plus, there was a spillover effect on the unit as a whole in the eyes of the staff. I had to bend over backwards the whole week to be conciliatory and non-confrontational, just to offset this guy. An extreme example, and the worst I ever saw.

 

When all's said and done, though, I'd rather have parents too involved than not involved at all. The former usually back away, but the latter never seem to step up at all.

 

KS

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

E,

 

Quit being right......it is just so irritating!

 

I have to admit, in the case I brought up, a rule book wouldn't have helped anyway. The mom that was trying to get sign offs and pushing her boy to get an instant SM conference so he could take part in the elections is a scouter. She was half our boys Webelos DL, is currently on the troop committee as our treasurer and is Wood Badge trained. She can't seem to quit spoiling her son and making exceptions for him. A rule book won't change that.

[cheffy]

The best mommie story I ever experienced..

We were sitting at my sons Blue and Gold, 30 min. from crossing over. The hype type A gotta do it all mom looks up and asks "what is Boy Scouts like?" They had never gone to a Scout meeting it sounded like. We explained a typical meeting and campout.

The next word out of her mouth were priceless. " who will cook for him and who will lay out his pajamas." We explained that they are lucky if they change their underwearand how 4 way shorts work. We had to tell her that no one ever starved and most boys like the freedom for cook for themselves. She joined a troop that was run like the military. They lasted 1 year becaues she woldn't cut the apron strings.

[Eamonn]

3 Years ago I was staffing a six day long Wood Badge course at the other end of the state. As always seems to happen that last day at work was never ending. Meetings ran over, just about anything that could go wrong was going wrong.

I was driving up with a friend from our Council. I phoned him and asked if he could stop at my house and pick up my kit and then pick me up from my office.

He agreed, it was on the way anyway.

Mike, my friend said how great it was that I had packed the night before and had my uniforms laid out.

I didn't have the heart to tell him that I had called Her Who Must Be Obeyed and she had done it all.

God Bless Mommies.

Eamonn.

[OR Pioneer]

Reading all this, I'm thinking perhaps we need a "Scout Parent's Oath." I don't know all of it yet, but I think the start is

"On My Honor, I promise to NOT do my son's Duties, to help other people's sons, ...

 

Care to add to it?

 

OR Pioneer

[Eagledad]

Happy Monday All

 

I guess after all these years, I have lots of mommy stories. But as n adult growing up from what the scouts could teach me, I learned that moms are the same as dads, they only want the best for their sons. They just have a funny way of doing it. Moms are just different until they see the program work. For me, I used more experience to teach about boy run to improve my skills of explaining each part of the program and how it made their son better. I found that if I couldn't explain the value of a part of the program, I researched until I could, or I take that part out of the program.

 

One mom learn to trust and love the program so much that when she moved to another state, she made the SM of their new troop call me to learn the boy run program. It's hard to explain feelings of pride and humilty crashing together in that microsecond. Thank goodness the other SM was a really nice guy.

 

Buy I really wrote this reply to brag about a mommy that helped a lot of boys by touching my heart. She was the one who taught me how to do this scouting stuff. She changed my life I guess. I'm one of those adults that you can still find the heal marks where they dragged me into this program. Through a slight of hand, I becaame the CM of broken Cub Pack of 90 scouts, eight new adult leaders, and one experienced leadere. Debbie, the experienced leader was a Webelos Leader with lots of years of wisdom she had gained through many years of Girls Scouts and Boy Scouts. She showed me how to keep the program focused on the boys, to make sure that character counts and that little boys aren't really boys, but men without experience. I can't even imagine how things would have been different had she not given me that push start.

 

I was blessed by that mommy.

 

Barry

[FatherJim]

When #1 son was a Cub, back in the late 1970s, he came home with his block of wood for the PineWood Derby. As I was in Seminary at the time we neglected to get the car built until the weekend before the race. I helped sand down the wheels but told him he had to do the rest. Well, the day of the race the fathers from Internatinal Harvester design division had their Cub's aerodynamically designed super cars ready to race. #1 son put his pathetic little car on the track amid chuckles and whispers, my heart broke for him. Yet he never seemed to notice. He finished dead last, but...and here is the point. All through high school and even now as a medical student, guess what is displayed on his shelf...you got it! OBTW he made Eagle.

[Hunt]

Some of the education process for parents has to be to focus on the process and not just the goal. I am constantly having this discussion with my wife. She is looking at the long-term big picture in terms of success--so she wants our son to be an Eagle Scout, to hurry up and get his MBs, etc. She is always after him (and me) to call the MBC, to arrange this and that, etc. I have to remind her (and myself) that it's really up to him to do that, with only limited help from us.

[Eamonn]

Strange how some posts from others are so close to home.

At times me thinks that OJ is out to set the record to be the Scout who was Life Scout for the longest time in history!! Her That Must Be Obeyed, has made it very clear as only one who must be obeyed can!! That she wants him to complete his Eagle Scout project.

I honestly would like him too, but he has got to want too. OJ, and your's truly can at times be a little dense, but we know when hints are being dropped. Notes on the fridge do get our attention!!

Father Jim and the Pine-wood Derby car reminded me about how bad our cars were. One year I left it till the night before and at around nine o'clock OJ and I finished panting the thing. OJ really liked spraying the silver paint. Come morning it was still tacky. Her Who Must Be Obeyed thought she was being helpful when she gave it a blast in the microwave oven!! The paint bubbled and blistered, I was mad, OJ was upset, the silver paint was gone but we found that gold paint dries a lot quicker!!

Eamonn.

I hope She doesn't get the idea of locking the fridge - Were she to do that, the needed Eagle project would be the fastest in history!!

[clpagel]

As a mommie and former den leader, I have enjoyed my 1st year of freedom! I told the dad's for 4 years that their turn would come. And they are there. I am on the committee and a MBC but that is it. Last night, I was talking to the newest former den leader and mommie. She kept saying that it felt like she should be doing more. We let her sit in on a BOR (for my son) to see what it was like. She will be on the committee too, but it is fun to sit back and relax.

BTW - I helped my son pack for his first summer camp! I bought 5 shirts for the 7 days. He wore them all, just the last one was for 4 days. When he went on his last overnight, he brushed his teeth before he left and just wore the same clothes until the next after noon. Then came home and showered. I learned fast!

Carol

[Bob White]

I agree the work in scouting is for the scouts to do. I'm sure everyone has seen cases of parents trying to help too much to one degree or another. I always left the handling of the parents to the committee chair once they had gone through the parents orientation.

 

Maybe it's the region I live in or my upbringing but I would never think of refering to the parents as "mommies" and "daddies", not even in Cub Scouts. As a parent I find that tone very demeaning. The only reason units exist is do to the efforts of the parents and guardians of the scouts we serve. If you want them to respect what you do then you have to respect them as well.

 

It is not as if they don't get to see their share of leaders who do too much for the scouts.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[EagleInKY]

Bob - It wasn't meant to be derogitory to all mothers and fathers, just those that pamper their sons to the point that they are truly getting in the way of their sons' development. Ironically, one of the parent's (actually a "daddy") that we've been having challenges with calls his 13 year old "honey". As my teenage daughter would say, "disturbing".

 

I've done all the basic things, prepared a parent's handbook for crossover, hold some new parent orientation sessions, and talk about the subject periodically in our committee meetings. But even with that, I'll have parents (almost always one or two particular mothers), who routinely will pick up the phone and say "what to do I need to pack for Billy for the campout this weekend?". Now, they're wording is usually not that obvious, but that's what they're trying to figure out. I've started telling them to have their son call the PL, but I've found out that now the mom is calling the PLs mom, which really doesn't get anything accomplished.

 

A good example. We had a first year scout at summer camp who caused lots of problems. He almost got sent home mid-week. Lots of behavior issues, backtalking, etc. Always pushing the limits, but stopping just short of "the line". I called and talked to mom & dad a couple of times during the week. Now, if I were them and someone called about my son, he wouldn't want to come home at the end of camp. But not this family. Mom & dad come up for parent's night. I expect them to have a long talk with #1 son. But no, I'm walking by the tent, and see mom and dad in their packing up his clothes to go home the next morning. I has where little Tommy is, they said he wanted to go fishing. Mom and dad never confronted him on his behavior, and even showered him with welcome home gifts when he got home.

[Bolo]

Last year, one newly crossed-over did not attend summer camp because "mommie" insisted he spend the week at the beach -- a family tradition...they always spend that week at the beach.

This year, when mommie reminded the Scout that he "couldn't go to camp because that was their beach week," the scout promptly replied..."Mom, my camping experiences and merit badges come first and are more important than the beach, so you and Dad will have to go alone, 'cause I'm going to camp!"

Mommie nearly fainted!

I'm so proud of this scout and as a leader it makes me feel like I'm really making an impact.