Mommies (or other adults) doing the work

[EagleInKY]

I've seen reference to parents doing the work for the kids. I've seen this as well, way too many times. It's a fallback to the Cub Scout model. But I also think it's a problem with parenting today. Maybe it's been around forever, but I wonder what you think and what you do about it (if anything).

 

Here's two quick examples:

Example #1 - Last year's "problem child" scout has come a long way. I've talked about this lad many times. He's turned from a problem child to a PGPL (Pretty Good Patrol Leader). He still has issues, but he's getting there. This week "he" sent out a reminder e-mail to his patrol about the campout this weekend. It was well-written and to the point. I responded, complementing him on the note. I didn't hear back. My son saw him at school and said something like, "I saw your note, thanks for doing that". The lad responded, "well, actually my mom sent it, I'm too lazy".

 

Example #2 - Several guys are working on First Aid MB with one of our Committee members. One of the moms came up to me before a meeting and asked about some item that needed to go in the First Aid Kit and how she was having trouble finding it. I told her that was between her son and the MB Counselor. She repeated the question.... I repeated the answer. Later that night, I saw her cornering the MB counselor. Unfortunately, he didn't give her the same answer as me.

 

So, I'm sure you've got tons of stories as well. That's just two of many for me. Do you do anything to combat this?

[SemperParatus]

In my experience, it gets better as they get older. Overtime, the scout shows more individual responsibility and the parent shows less interest in taking care of every little thing. Of course, this is a generality - there are always exceptions. The first two years out of cubs are always the most difficult as both the scout and parent learn and are steadily 'retrained'. Keep the message out there, share it during SM minutes, at committee meetings, in casual conversation, and in situations like yours when it is staring you in the face. Eventually, the idea will stick.

 

The only 'combat tactic' I know of is communication. You can't really stop a too helpful parent, but you sure can plant the seed so that hopefully they think twice before acting.

[acco40]

The physical merit badge may be purchased by anyone off the street. At the next COH, present the First Aid merit badge to the Scouts mother. Maybe she will get the message (maybe she won't).

 

I'll probably get crucified for this but here goes ...

 

With many more mothers (fathers seemed to have always worked too much) in the workforce, what little time they do have to spend with the children they wish to spend it as friends and not parents. That is - avoid conflict at all costs and "help" them be successful. Sometimes this is done subconsciously out of the guilt they feel from working and not being a stay at home parent.

 

I don't know how many times I've seen my wife upset (and she does not work outside the home) because of my son's late start on homework, scout stuff, etc. I have to keep reminding her that it is HIS grades, HIS awards and not hers. I think that some parents, mostly moms with school, dads with sports and either/or for scouts get too wrapped up in their children's accomplishments. Parenting is not an easy task to do correctly.

 

 

[spinnaker]

here is a story for you...a few camporees ago I dropped by the troop site as they were setting up camp. . This was an unusual situation - that the new SM and I were responsible for a council activity and were not going to be avalable for the troop. several dads camped with them instead of us. One of our scouts was in the unique position of camping the first time w/out dad (who could not get off of work) He is first class and aged about 14-15 This camporee took place w/in city limits. I was surprised to see his mother try to help put up his tent - picture this she was wearing a suit and high heels and unlike me is not the outdoor type. Sheesh...

 

Spinnaker

[EagleInKY]

At the next COH, present the First Aid merit badge to the Scouts mother. Wow, that would be interesting. Reminds me of a story. This time about SWMBO... Last year at Summer Camp, the leaders get a nice dinner on Wednesday night. My wife volunteered to come down and hang out with the boys while all of the adults got their nice mid-week break from them for a couple of hours. It's a pretty easy gig. Walk with them to the dining hall, eat dinner, go to the flag ceremony, return to the campsite, hang out until we return. Well, wouldn't you know, one of the scouts threw his retainer away. My wife, knowing full well the cost to replace a retainer, went with the boy back to the mess hall to search for the retainer. Believe it or not, they found it. (Oh, did I mention that it was lasagna night!!!)

 

All of us dads were amazed she would do that. We said the poor lad would be on his own if it were us. At the next COH I presented her with a custom-made MB card with a new MB design on it.... the merit badge she earned??? Dumpster Diving, of course.

[anarchist]

EagleInKY- love the dumpster dive MB!

 

Parents (most of them) can be retrained. In everything you hand out in all your newsletters, emails, web pages and parents meeting constantly repeat...If A BOY CAN DO IT...PARENTS DON'T!

 

We try to remind adults at every opportunity...On activities, I have even been known to run up to a parent, gently wrap a arm around them and laughing all-the-while, guide them back to the parents play-pen area...can't take your eyes off of them for a second!

 

We try to keep parents thinging they are transport, and not themselves working on advancement...(tell alot of stories about "boys who's parents do their SCHOOL homework for them...do you believe it!" some of it gets through.

[spinnaker]

anarchist - that scouts mother doesd his HW for him. I found that out when 4 scouts were working on E. Sci MB at summer camp. mommies boy coulld't seem to write his reports. did't get signed off on that MB.

 

parents play pen - never thought of it. Now if only BSA woul change the rules on what they can have in their bottle, I know that we could keep them there. - wink ,

 

EagleinKY- she deserves much more than that MB (but what agood idea). What a lady !!!

 

Spinnaker

[wyomingi]

I was taking some boys on a short backpacking trip and noticed that one of the younger boys had a heavy pack. One of the purposes of the trip was to have the boys learn what to bring and what to leave at home. I discussed this with the boy and we examined his pack contents. He had more clothing and food than I could believe. When I asked why he said "my mother put it in". Despite his heavy pack the boy did very well on his first backpacking trip.

 

Back at the parking lot his mother greeted me and asked how her son did. I said that he did fine, but would have done even better if he had packed his own pack. She said he knew where everything was. We then discussed the heavy pack and how she had not really helped her son by over filling his pack. I think she got the idea.

 

I think this illustrates how adults (not just moms) doing things for the boys is sometimes not helping.

[scoutldr]

Summer Camp 2004: Our "first year" boys dump their gear at the site and we hustle off to medical check-in and swim checks. When we return "Johnnie's" mom had his gear all unpacked and stowed and his bunk all made with his favorite sheets and pillow. The other boys whose moms did not come along razzed him unmercifully, in front of Mom. Peer pressure can be a wonderful thing.

[SR540Beaver]

The SM, my fellow ASM and I set down after our last troop meeting where the mom flagged me down to sign her son's requirements off that I mentioned in the other thread. WE came to an agreement that we needed to start a document of written policies to avert these types of things. I see the beginnings of a Troop Parent's Guide. I know that a former by the book poster I highly respect detested these rules and policies. He thought it was all covered in the oath and law. It is, but just like the smoking thread(s)....even intelligent folks need some things spelled out for them. Communication and education are good things. I think we will put at the top of each page in big bold letters, "IF A BOY CAN DO IT, PARENTS DON'T!!!"

[Laurie]

We moms sure take a bad rap at times, but I agree that it's often deserved. It's kind of funny how the thinking that moms will do it all for their sons tends to hinder communication. You could have heard a pin drop when I was a troop committee meeting and asked how, as a parent and committee member, I could best help my son or any other boy to advance. I was prepared to hear "nothing", but silence. I rephrased and repeated it, offering the info that maybe it's best I do nothing, but is there a way in which I can help. Ah, now that was better. Seems the mom who is a taxi driver may go right ahead and become troop transport too

 

Parents need to know what Scouts is about, and depending upon what they know of it, they may have good reason to believe they need to do things for the boys. Not all troops are boy-led, and some seem to exist more for the adults than for the boys, so it's not just the Cub to Scout transition that is challening, it's also the troop to troop transition that may be challenging.

 

It pains me to see my sons do dumb stuff or to not do anything at all, but I remind myself often, "it's his work that gets the grade or advancement or scores a goal", and when he doesn't apply himself, he loses out. HIM, not me. I hope to see less lost opportunities as the boys mature. By then, though, I suspect my hair will be completely white

[SR540Beaver]

Laurie brings up some good points. I am fortunate enough to have a son who has never brought home anything other than an A from school. The school sent their work home with them each night and a sign off sheet for the parents to sign. We always looked our son's work over and pointed out any errors and had them correct them. After a while, this began to bug me. Is he really an A student or not. If we didn't look over his work, would he be a B student. We asked the teacher during a conference and she said that as long as you are not doing the work for him, you are doing exactly what we want every parent to do. Be interested in their education and reinforce what we teach. Point out the mistakes and make sure he does the work. She said that the true measure is when he takes a test. If he makes an A on every paper and pulls a C on the test, he isn't getting it. He makes an A on every test. I asked the teacher why some kids make such poor grades. Part of it was because some just are not that sharp, but part of it was because their parents didn't take an interest in their education, didn't look over their work and didn't reinforce what they were learning at school. I try to approach his scouting the same way. I'm always aware, watching and evaluating, but I make sure he does it all on his own. He has his 1st class BOR next week. If he wants it, there is no question he can EARN his Eagle someday. Dad will have been a part of it, but he will have earned it on his own. Knowing where the dividing line is half the trick.

[Eamonn]

Why is this tread making me think about Rolling Stones songs? Beast of Burden, You Don't always Get What You Want and You Gotta Move:

 

You Gotta Move

By Fred McDowell/Rev. Gary Davis

You gotta move

You gotta move

You gotta move, child

You gotta move

Oh, when the Lord gets ready

You gotta move

 

You may be high

You may be low

You may be rich, child

You may be poor

But when the Lord gets ready

You gotta move

Kids (Not just Scouts) do over time move from dependency to Independence. At times I know in our house this can cause conflict.

16 years ago we brought home a helpless little fellow, we did everything we could to meet his needs. As time passed these needs lessened and he started to make his own choices. He started to tell us what his likes and dislikes were and we heard "I can do it Daddy." As his parents we thought and to a degree still think that we know best. Letting go of this is really hard and is not made any easier by 16 year olds acting like 16 year olds.

Before you cross the street

Take my hand

Life is what happens to you

While you're busy making other plans.

Allowing a Son to cross the street without taking the hand is a big step.

OJ, came back from his first Webelos Scout camp, without ever changing his underwear. When Her That Must Be Obeyed, asked him why? He said that he didn't know that there were clean underwear in his pack. The next time he was going away they packed together. Over time that has become Her asking "What do you need for the weekend?"

I'm sorry Beaver Guy, but we don't need to write a big book of rules about who does what. We do need to use skills of leadership to get our message across. While a big book of rules would communicate what we want done it would take away the choice of doing it right and we are all about placing our youth members in situations where they make choices.

Sure there are times when Parents are a right royal pain, and we need to give them a hand in allowing their son to say "I can do it Daddy."

I am happy to allow OJ, to make his own bed and lie on it. I like to think that he has ownership of and for his own actions. I also think that Scouting has had a lot to do with him become more self-reliant.

We help our Scouts become more self-reliant, by dealing with each Scout as an individual, and helping him set goals that he is going to work on achieving. Scoutmaster Conferences and BOR's can really help with this.

At times we might need to have a word with the parent and let them know that their son wants to do do things for himself. Some parents have a really hard time letting go. Some parents never let go.

We have requirements that ask the Scout to do things. We need to ensure as best we can that he is doing them. We need to be vigilant that when Mom sends the E-mail or Dad builds the whatever that we communicate to the Scout and his parents that this isn't the way we do things. We also need to let them know why.

Eamonn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[beasties mom]

This is how this camping mom learned to leave the mom part home.At summer camp about half way thru the week.One of the boys had the dirtest face.Before we went to flags I made him wash his face.After the flags the staff have different competions to see who gets to go to dinner first.It just happened that the scout with the dirtest face would go first.Almost instantally I had 20 Scouts turned looking at me.They teased me all night long about it.Still do 2 years later.I learned maybe in a silly way but I don't mommy anyone anymore.When the patrol flag got ripped I handed the scout a needle and thread and watched him sew it.I found that these boys will do for me if I let them.It's amazing what scouts can do for themselves if you step back and let them.

[SR540Beaver]

E,

 

The big book of rules isn't for the boys. We've trained them and they already know what to do. It is for the parents who can't leave well enough alone.