tobacco use

[Eamonn]

with smoking areas located away from all participants.

I'm not trying to rationalize anything I'm just following the guide.

Eamonn

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

Tobacco user or not, rationalizing or not, proper grammar or not.....it is apparent that the wording causes confusion. The BSA is aware of this and has never seen fit to change it. If they want it prohibited, just say so. Use a word like "prohibited" that leaves no wiggle room. Can not or shall not will leave less wiggle room than may not. I'm not arguing in favor of tobacco use on outings, I just think the BSA can solve an obvious problem by clarifying their wording in clear concise language. While it may seem clear and concise to many, it obviously is not to others. That point can't be argued. So, how to fix it? Change the wording. Then everyone will be on the same page whether they like what they are reading or not.

[Trevorum]

Yes, it is confusing! And, it could very easily be clarified.

 

But I strongly suspect that National does not want to fix it. They're famous for writing policies that have all this wiggle room. (eg., "laser" tag). With their high paid lawyers, don't you think they know exactly what they are doing?

[scoutingagain]

I believe this discussion has been held in earlier threads.

 

But, my 2 cents anyway.

 

The way I read the sentence, "Adult leaders should support the attitude that young adults are better off without tobacco and may not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth participants.", It is clear the BSA does not put tobacco use in the same category as alcohol. What the sentence does, is put the issue of banning the use of tobacco at scout functions in the hands of the adult leaders present. Adult leaders "may", as in "are allowed to" ban the use of tobacco, however they are not required to, as in the case of alcohol. If the powers that be, wanted to ban the use of tobacco, they would have used the same language that was used to ban the use of alcohol, which in my opinion, they should have done.

 

This is somewhat ironic, since it is pretty well documented that limited consumption of alcohol has some health benefits, whereas there is little or no evidence there is any health benefit derived from smoking. However, given the potential for abuse and youth transportation concerns, I support the ban on alcohol use.

 

SA

 

 

 

 

[FScouter]

The problem is not the wording in the G2SS. The problem is adult smokers know the BSA position that smoking is not good for kids, know that adult leaders lead by example, yet want to smoke anyway. The BSA tobacco policy is only confusing to those that want to violate it and hide behind the wording with a "clear conscience".

[SR540Beaver]

fscout,

 

That simply isn't true. If you randomly ask 10 different scouters, you will probably get 4 or 5 different answers. Print it off, take it to 10 non-scouters you know and ask their opinion. Many non-smokers are confused by the language as well. I can turn it around and say that non-smokers are reading it as the prohibition that they want to read into it. As I have said before, the BSA can clear the whole problem up very easily by changing the wording that people find confusing. Then people can complain that they don't like the policy, but they can't argue about what the policy actually means. Taking the view that it means that prohibiting smoking is permissable is a valid interpretation. Until it says can not, will not, shall not or prohibited instead of may not; the controversy will continue to rage and the dead horse will continue to be flogged. It is a simple change.

[SemperParatus]

Speaking of dead horses and smoking...

 

Anybody remember the episode where Mr. Ed is playing poker with a stogey in his mouth? Ahhh......Wilburrrrr.

[acco40]

Using my omnipotent powers ... The BSA does not want to eliminate smoking (tobacco use), it wants to eliminate smoking at all BSA activities that involve youth. For those activities that do not involve youth - a designated smoking area, away from the participants (in this case 100% non-youth) is required. Yes, specmeisters use such wording as "shall" but I really see no confusion with the way G2SS is worded but I admit - many do. It is the fault of the reader or the text? I won't go there. Adult leaders should support the attitude that young adults are better off without tobacco and may not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth participants. (emphasis (bold) is not mine -it is in the G2SS. Bold type throughout the Guide to Safe Scouting denotes BSA rules and policies.) If you notice other areas of G2SS - "Physical hazing and initiations are prohibited and may not be included as part of any Scouting activity. " the term "may not" is used and the term surely does not mean "optional" it is a strict rule forbidding an activity.

[FScouter]

This discussion is silly. It is also silly that BSA finds it necessary to address this issue at all.

 

We teach boys to make right decisions. Its impossible to teach the right decision for every possible scenario. We teach them instead to evaluate situations, weigh the good and bad aspects of alternatives, and to make the "right" decision.

 

Do we teach boys about the dangers of alcohol, drugs, and tobacco? Do we tell them about the dangers of tobacco, and then light up?

 

As adults, we should be able to distinguish the right course of action. What positive things come from smoking at a Scouting event? Are there any negatives? Do we really need to have this spelled out in black and white? Is anyone TRULY confused?

 

[packsaddle]

I don't know, maybe it was Murphy, or nature, or a higher power, or something...but it seems to be some sort of law that even smart people have to have things 'spelled out' to them. And the smarter they are, the greater the need for the 'spelling'. I think that in this thread and its previous incarnations, you are actually hearing reasonably smart people (anyone who isn't smart please raise their hand) implicitly ask for clear, specific rules that allow no options for imagination or self-deception. I think SR540Beaver got it right.

[crgholthus]

Let's be adults.

If your camping,take a walk,puff all you want.Don't blow smoke in a scouts face.

If your hauling scouts,smoke while your out of the car. Not in it!

Kids are not ignorant.2 out of 5 kids(age11-18) have already tried it.(AMAAC survey of pediatricians)

We're the leaders,never let the kids see you sweat.

[pkcubm]

troop251scout

Keep up the "GOOD JOB", We need more SPL's like you. Every now and then we need to be reminded who we are with."SCOUTS".

TO, every one who reads this; No reason to influance the young men ,if you must use tobacco take a hike.

 

Reminder, Scout Oath,

.... To keep myself physically strong

Take care of your body so that it will serve you well for an entire lifetime.

That means eating nutritious foods, getting enough sleep, and exercising regularly to build strength and endurance. It also means AVOIDING harmful drugs, alcohol,TOBACCO, and anything else that can harm your health.

 

pckubm

[zippie2223]

HI my Name Is "Zippie" - I have been free of the evil nicotine MONSTER for- Five Months, Eleven Days, 1 Hour and 4 Minutes, while extending my life and time with my children 22 Days and 15 Hours, by avoiding the use of 6522 cigarettes, while saving $869.95 toward my retirement.

 

Scouting Helped me quit...

got tired of running off in the woods at night, and from getting ugle looks from other parents.

 

 

[pack561]

We have leaders and parents who smoke, the rule is you don't do it around or near the scouts. Lets face it, people smoke, if a leader or parent smokes then the scouts already know they smoke if they come within three feet of them. But it is just common sense that you don't smoke in the middle of a scouting event. Although at day camp I ran into a parent who was doing it around a bunch of boy's helping them with a fish. I politely and quitely told him not around the scouts and he more than willing to comply.

 

The best way to avoid the problem is to publish it on your flyers and notes for events and in your round up information. Having been a serious smoker for many, many years I am very sympathetic (plus the smoke still makes me jones something fierce). Very few smokers would take offense as long as they are aware ahead of time. As for location or distance it is out of site and far enough away so no second hand smoke drifts to the boys.