How do you gentle nudge out an adult volunteer?

[Armymutt]

I thought about posting this in the OA section, but the principles apply in all areas of the program.  Our Chapter has an adult volunteer who has been there a long time.  He/she is no longer an advisor at the chapter level, and I believe is at the Lodge level.  However, he/she has the keys to the meeting location, being a member of that location.  I have been forced to be on the peripheral of the chapter due to work.  I'm still in the chats, so I see what they are, and more importantly, aren't doing.  They are still doing EC meetings remotely, which were mostly long periods of silence and black screens when I was actively involved.  The chapter meetings seem to be little different than an average teenager outing with friends - bowling, climbing, and skating seem to be the major things.  The adult in question claims to wan to be in a different position, but won't relinquish influence.  Other adults have tried to step in, but were sidelined by this individual.  I have dealt with this same person in my pack.  He/she was the COR, but was committee chair and CM at some point in the past.  He/she was routinely interfering.  Probably well-meaning, but very wrong and causing confusion among parents.   He/she didn't attend committee meetings for months and then sent out emails directing the opposite action of what was agreed on.  Anyway, I was able to talk to a couple of Scouts this weekend from a troop that used to make up the largest percentage of the chapter.  They said it just wasn't fun or exciting.  I mentioned my idea for having the OA develop and run a district Pioneer Derby.  They seemed receptive, but raised the issue of what I'm calling inertia.  We have adults with pretty strong personalities, but they reign them in when dealing with other adults.  However, I'm seeing the inertia of one adult causing the destruction of the chapter.  While I hate to call it a coup, I think that's what it's going to take.  Anyone have a different idea than getting the youth to ask an adult advisor to find another place to be on meeting nights?

[Wëlënakwsu]

Rather than nudging out the person who arranges the meeting place... from your description the more important  task is to have a better Chapter Advisor.  There seems to be void that he/she is filling, but not well.

[scoutldr]

I would be asking questions of the youth leaders, such as, "how does this activity further the ideals of the Order?"  How are we providing "cheerful service" to the Lodge, District, Council and our Units?  What are we doing to promote camping?  WWW

[Armymutt]

6 hours ago, Wëlënakwsu said:

Rather than nudging out the person who arranges the meeting place... from your description the more important  task is to have a better Chapter Advisor.  There seems to be void that he/she is filling, but not well.

That's the whole point.  No one else can take over as the Chapter Advisor while he/she won't relinquish the reigns.  That's why he/she needs to be nudged out.  

1 hour ago, scoutldr said:

I would be asking questions of the youth leaders, such as, "how does this activity further the ideals of the Order?"  How are we providing "cheerful service" to the Lodge, District, Council and our Units?  What are we doing to promote camping?  WWW

I tried that as the ceremonies advisor, but was always stifled with the "youth lead" mantra.  That's my goal if I can get the power shifting away from the stagnant program and on a focused project that provides service to Scouting.  There are so many service opportunities at our local camp.  

[Double Eagle]

Worst case, the supreme chief of the fire (council executive) could give the nudge.  The lodge advisor would be the one to address this with a chapter advisor.  Yup, I've been both.  If the lodge has an upcoming lodge leader development, it would be a good time for associate lodge advisor(s) and adults to address this in an adult forum. 

I'd give a mentor or friend of the individual a chance to talk sense.  Maybe with a long tenure, it is time for new roles or new blood into that area. 

[Tron]

At the unit level this is hard to address. At the district or council level (so say, chapter or lodge) it is easier to push these people out. I am not 100% familiar with OA rules; however, most volunteer roles outside of unit roles are 1 year terms that are renewed by district or council, anything really important such as chairs etc ... typically have a 2-3 year max type restriction somewhere in the books. For example a district or council chair is not supposed to hold the position for more than 2 years consecutively to keep people from becoming the king of the castle so to speak. I bet the OA has rules like this somewhere. I know that my local lodge has some sort of rule about not being able to be an adviser unless the person is the parent of a dues paying youth member; I don't know if that is a local rule or an OA rule, might be worth checking out. Good luck. 

[Double Eagle]

For Tron, you do reference local policies.  The lodge advisor term and dues paying parent is local.  One dangerous situation is when the lodge chief and advisor are in the same household.  It can be friction whether the conversation is from parent/youth or chief/advisor.   You are correct on the 1year term on district/council positions, but no term limits by national.  From a commissioner standpoint, a couple awards require 3yrs of a 5yr periods. 

 

[Armymutt]

19 hours ago, Tron said:

At the unit level this is hard to address. At the district or council level (so say, chapter or lodge) it is easier to push these people out. I am not 100% familiar with OA rules; however, most volunteer roles outside of unit roles are 1 year terms that are renewed by district or council, anything really important such as chairs etc ... typically have a 2-3 year max type restriction somewhere in the books. For example a district or council chair is not supposed to hold the position for more than 2 years consecutively to keep people from becoming the king of the castle so to speak. I bet the OA has rules like this somewhere. I know that my local lodge has some sort of rule about not being able to be an adviser unless the person is the parent of a dues paying youth member; I don't know if that is a local rule or an OA rule, might be worth checking out. Good luck. 

That last bit might be a way, if it is true.  His/her last child left for college 3 years ago.

[Tron]

14 hours ago, Double Eagle said:

For Tron, you do reference local policies.  The lodge advisor term and dues paying parent is local.  One dangerous situation is when the lodge chief and advisor are in the same household.  It can be friction whether the conversation is from parent/youth or chief/advisor.   You are correct on the 1year term on district/council positions, but no term limits by national.  From a commissioner standpoint, a couple awards require 3yrs of a 5yr periods. 

 

I know national has term limits for district and council chairs. There was a situation in my council where a chair refused to step down/aside and claimed there were no rules against it. National stepped in and told the chair to step down per policy or get banned from being a registered adult. That was a few years ago, might have changed, but doubt it considering that district and council committee training still reference term limits for chairs. 

[mrjohns2]

13 hours ago, Tron said:

I know national has term limits for district and council chairs. There was a situation in my council where a chair refused to step down/aside and claimed there were no rules against it. National stepped in and told the chair to step down per policy or get banned from being a registered adult. That was a few years ago, might have changed, but doubt it considering that district and council committee training still reference term limits for chairs. 

It is simpler than term limits. All adult volunteers, (including at the unit level) only have 1 year terms. So, each year, district chairs must be reapproved. 

[Double Eagle]

For mrjpohns2, that is rather interesting concept rather than a national rule I think.  Imagine being a district key 3 and signing up the next year's key 3 for all kinds of things they have no knowledge or interest in.  It often takes more than a year to understand the mechanics of district, service area, or council after merges, realignment, and new units added.  A new advancement chair each year would be interesting to see that work successfully.  And then...you must have a bench of volunteers ready to step up/in.   Not a fan of mandatory 1yr term limits in any unit or level.

[SSScout]

Aye, the work is imdeed done by whoever shows up.  

Consider the recent case of a District Commissioner. Wonderful Scouter, bleeds khaki, as they say. He covers all things Scouty in our District for several (several!) years. Comes the new DE. He checks the record, confers with his fellows, and declares that the  DCommissioner  in question has been DCommissioner long enough, and as of xx date, he will be "retired", thank you for your service", and recommends (?) that Assistant DC be promoted. Assistant DC says "what?" Present DC says "WHAT??"  When this news is spread, the rest of the District's ADCs and UCs say ""WHAT ? ? ""  

Scout politics occurs. 90% of the District's Commissioners threaten to resign. DE et al declare the policy is.... and that's that. The District's ADCommissioners , UCommissioners and Committee Chair et al all stomp their metaphorical feet, read the fine print and note that the DC must be APPROVED by the Council Commissioner, but can be (can be) elected by the District Commissioners and/or Committee. After alot of back and forth, our aged  DC agrees to step down, but not quite yet. A dedicated ADC agrees to be DC, and is elected by acclamation at the next District Meeting which happened to be the Annual Meeting, when such things should occur.  This ADC is not the one the DE announced, to no one's surprise but relief.  The DE and CCommish (on ZOOM) both nod in agreement, revolt/resignations averted.  Camporee in four months...

[mrjohns2]

8 hours ago, Double Eagle said:

For mrjpohns2, that is rather interesting concept rather than a national rule I think. 

This is a national rule. There isn’t a national term limit, but each term is only 1 year. Each year, all district and council positions must be renominated and approved. Often a rubber stamp, but not always. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/regions/central/PDF/District Nominating Committee Worksheet.pdf

Here is the council one. 

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Highlights-of-Council-Governance.pdf

Edited April 9 by mrjohns2

[Double Eagle]

This is in reference to SSScout.  I was in a similar situation when called by the Scout Exec and Council Commissioner to go from ADC to Dist Commish.  My first question is what happened to the current Dist Commish?  He was going to cross lanes and become the new District Chair.  That was the good part as I let it be known that I would not be part of bumping him out unless voluntarily.  I think it is poor business to not give the interim person the opportunity first, unless there is just cause.